Knights Exemplar W.I.P (IIII)

[Quozzo]

Also they dont follow codex structure. Why should they have 10 companies?

Because there is no reason to avoid it. You state they have a homeworld so any recruits would come from that, the fighting companies wouldn't need to train their own.

 

I know the Steel Templars are called the Steel Templars, but its obvious you just want to make the BT and slap a different name on them. Calling your chapter the Templars is evidence of this, having them trained by the BT (which the high lords would not approve of) is evidence of this. Saying they have companies, but have more than usual for no reason is evidence of this.

 

The High Lords dont make chapters in honour of someone. Not when they don't particularly like the chapter from whom the brother fell.

 

I have a distinct feeling my opinions are falling on deaf ears. Good luck with the IA. Maybe this guide will help.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Quozzo

[Sete]

So lets see this point. Imperial fists and crimson fists tell me the difference.
Colour scheme.
Same with dozens of ultra marine chapters. Suddenly I try to make a BT successor jimmies get rustled.
Im trying to make my own thing here, ofc with Templar inspiration. What is the relationship of the new Templars with the High Lords? What was the relationship of Sigismund with the High Lords? He was chosen by the Emperor to be his champion. I doubt that they would not honour that "brother".
The fighting companies are autonomous. Its a big planet lots of places to recruit from. The Company masters have complete freedom to do as they wish with their company. As long they report to the Grand Master. Ofc this is similar to BT. Its coherent. Or maybe being trained by BT they would be stealthy like RG? That would make no sense. You don't like it? Ok no worries, I also don't like codex compliant chapters. Your opinions are not falling into deaf ears, its just you are insisting in stuff that is already explained. Why don't they have 10 companies? Because every company already has its internal organization.  It allows a greater flexibility than the rigid codex structure, plus more bodies. They didn't make the chapter out of thin air. It was part of the 3rd founding. I think it the highest honour they could provide Sigismund and the Black Templars for being the first ones to engage the Black Legion in the 1st Black Crusade is to found a chapter with their gene seed.
Also the Templars are best buddies with the church of the emperor now. So I reckon they have supporters within the High Lords.
Also I read that guide. Quite a few times already. My work is coherent. And I fleshed it out the best I could.
Everything written has meaning. From the names to the chapter history. Templars despise guilliman codex. Read Eternal Crusader, Guy Haley. Why would they agree to train a chapter, and be the leadership cadre of a codex compliant chapter? That would make no sense. That, yes, would be completely out of place.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Sete

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I currently have no problems with your fluff. As the Chapter was founded shortly after Abaddon's First Black Crusade- TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO- who can say the High Lords' attitudes towards Black Templars haven't changed? Who can say for certain the Black Templars founded ZERO SUCCESSOR CHAPTERS during that time? Hell, the Black Templars themselves don't know when or why they stopped using Librarians (see 'Codex: Space Marines' for 6th Edition), so who can say for certain their were no Black Templar Librarians that could've helped found a successor Chapter?

[Tiberius Cato]

It is entirely possible that the chapter was infact actually BT to begin with, a lost and forgotten crusade if you will. With them being around since the aftermath of the first black crusade they would have quite a lot of time to develop a new identity, intentionally or not.

[Stercus]

I think I'm with you on this one arctic paladin. Ten millennia before today, people were mostly sitting under piles of branches to keep the rain off while eating raw meat they'd killed by hitting it with a rock. I think in the years between m31 and m41 there is every chance that a chapter sized group of Templars could have gone unnoticed by a galaxy spanning bureaucracy. Hell, I can't even get the telephone company to send me a consistent bill two months running for a landline that doesn't even have a handset plugged into it.

[Jape]

Aye, there is no need for an official founding - as they developed their own culture, for whatever reason the *Steel Templars could have shed their Black Templar identity. I don't think its insane that at some point if the High Lords found a bunch of marines calling themselves the Steel Templar are running around they wouldn't retroactively accept them as an independent chapter - after all the Imperium is a chaotic, desperate place.

 

That said its bureaucracy is Kafka turned up to 11, maybe the High Lords genuinely don't know about them OR they occassionally get reports of them but they just class them as Black Templars so they don't have to fill in the paperwork. After all the Black Templars are known to be good Imperial soldiers but they are so mobile the Administratum has little time to catalogue their activities, meaning the Steel Templars are just hand waved.

[Sete]

Well it seems my chapter mythology is growing. I can add suspected 3rd founding.

Been thinking about companies and add some color to shoulder pad trim.

Im taking notes of the opinions.

Maybe when the Templars started worshiping the Emperor the more pragmatic brothers left the chapter?

[Stercus]

It's certainly possible that a group of Sigismund's men become uncomfortable with the level of veneration the emperor had taken on among their comrades. It wouldn't be too hard for a small crusade fleet to slip away and be assumed lost.

[Tiberius Cato]

Maybe they failed their High Marshall on a crusade and couldn't bear to return in shame, so they struck out on their own to seek redemption. They felt unworthy of bearing their chapters livery and stripped it down to the ceramite, leaving a plain unornamented suit of armour. They still carried on with their standard recruitments and such, to preserve themselves and ensure their is something to return to the high marshall when penatence is achieved. But after millenia, they changed. They forgot where they came from and who they originally were, the unfinished ceramite changed to a steel coloured armour, and the chapter diverged from it's Templar roots unknowingly.

[Sete]

Interesting ideas. Will make a big change on the lore tho. Need to think about this one.

Maybe the crusade that was with Sigismund, failing to protect their high Marshall swore an oath to stand vigil over the eye of terror for millenia?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Sete

[Sete]

So after a bit of brainstorming I will change the lore (a bit) and color. I will taking inspiration in the Order of Aviz, green cross on white. Which I will invert. So white cross on green. Maybe with white or silver trim aswell. Also silver helmet and gloves.

I will keep the knight monastic theme, since its my favourite, but intend to give them a new identity more distant from the Black Templars.

Now I need to do a bit more of reserch. Already have 2 books to read...

Edited November 26, 2014 by Sete

[Brother Tyler]

The use of the Black Templars as a progenitor Chapter traditionally engenders a lot of negative reactions here at the B&C, with many members emotionally opposed to the idea. If you'd like to see some examples of past efforts, just enter "Black Templars Successor" (in quotation marks) into the search tool. The Black Templars are one Chapter where an aspiring DIY creator must tread with caution, but must also be prepared to consider the input provided by others and then continue pushing forward with what they want to do.

 

Personally, I dislike the notion of a Black Templars crusade that has broken from the Chapter, regardless of the reason. The Black Templars (to me) are the epitome of fidelity and zeal. They may perform some penance for a [perceived] failure, but breaking away from the Chapter isn't something that fits them - that's more how we might see "Successors" of the Space Wolves.

 

My suggestion is to go with your original concept - a new 3rd Founding Chapter created to honor the Black Templars after their achievements during the 1st Black Crusade of Abaddon the Despoiler. That seems like a reasonable rationale for the High Lords of Terra to both trust the Chapter (at that time) and use their gene-seed for a new Chapter.

 

Everything after that is more subject to modification. Put yourself in the shoes of the first Chapter Master. What are his history and personality like? Those are the main things that are going to drive the new Chapter and the decisions he makes with regard to name, livery, composition, etc. You've already done that to a degree, so this isn't a revelation to you, I know. The one problematic thing I see is that the Chapter doesn't need to conform to the Codex Astartes. Maybe they did, at first, but only on the surface. As the lore goes, the High Lords of Terra have never tried to enforce absolutely the dictates of the Codex Astartes. Perhaps the High Lords of Terra were willing to overlook some of the idiosyncrasies of the Black Templars in creating the new Chapter.

 

Some of the later input also looks very good to me and might be incorporated. When the Black Templars came to venerate the Emperor in the "God-Emperor" sense is unknown, so I would avoid including reference to that except in the sense that your Successor doesn't follow that tradition. I like the idea of the new Chapter badge, though it might be argued that the use of a fermee cross of any color might be another thing that contributes towards negative reactions to the Chapter.

 

Personally, I don't like "Templars" in the name. While it is not in any way inappropriate, it is another thing that creates problems by making it look like all you wanted to create was Black Templars under another name and scheme. I think you would benefit from changing the name, perhaps drawing upon the lore of the Imperial Fists Legion (the Templars guarded the Temple of Oaths aboard the Phalanx). Remember that we're talking about an event that took place 7,000 years ago. The Black Templars of that time were much closer to the traditions and history of the Legion than their modern counterparts. With some of those traditions a bit more fresh in their minds, you could very easily incorporate them into your new Chapter. I've actually been considering what the Black Templars of that time were like (working on my Black Templars army using the 30K rules) and wondering what a Successor created from their gene-seed might look like and be called. If you don't have Horus Heresy Book Three - Extermination, I'd certainly be amenable to providing information that might help you in this regard.

 

How willing are you to change the color scheme, Chapter badge, and name (any combination of the three)? You shouldn't feel compelled to change any of them, regardless of what others say. If you want to change one or more of them, do it because it's what you want to do. Alternately, don't be afraid to stay the course if that's what you want. It's your Chapter. Your the one that has to live with (and enjoy!) the results of your labors. None of us is in any way affected by what you do here.

[Sete]

Wow big post. :)

Honeslty I dont like a crusade that got lost. It also does not sit right with me.

Im thinking on keeping the founding, and the BT connection, but the name is bothering me aswell. The cross im looking for will be in the style of the Avenging Sons, im trying to avoid using the templar cross, exactly because I want them to be distinct from the Templars, but as a knighlty and monastic chapter I want to use some kind of cross on both shoulder pads and that is a thing I dont intend to change.

About the color just grey looks a bit bland. And since green is my favourite color I want to add it. It will give a bit more of personality and it goes with the jungle feral world theme of the home planet. Some info on horus heresy would be nice and I would greatly appreciate it, it even might help me find a new name. I have been thinking about Order of Dorn. But still not happy with it.

I like the critics and opinions they force me to improve.

Now probably they will be codex adherent at beginning and after the near annihilation they will add a 11th company.

The chapter will be stoic and spartan. No excessive bling, just some seals to celebrate personal achivements, and the rest will basically remain the same. Maybe they will crusade a bit more around the galaxy aswell.

I think my lore is acceptable, its just the name, traditions and structure that needs some work.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Sete

[Sete]

So after a while maybe i will use this cross http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Jerusalem_cross.svg/220px-Jerusalem_cross.svg.png

So I went for Exculpators, their mission to free their fallen brothers from guilt and sin though death. Of course the same reasoning can be applied to xenos.

It sounds good to me i wonder how does it sound to native English speakers.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Sete

[Brother Tyler]

So should I be changing the "Steel Templars" name in the tabula astartes?

Never mind. I just saw your PM.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Brother Tyler

[Sete]

Damn its hard to get a name... It has to be that perfect thing...

[Brother Tyler]

The name is a bit high fallutin' for most native English speakers. Those with a better than average vocabulary will get it, but the rest of us will be a bit confused.

 

Here are some other ideas (and I'm just brainstorming here)...

 

Oath Wardens

Order of the Sword

Guardians

Sword Knights

Sword Lords

Crusading Swords

Salvation Knights

[Sete]

Good names. I have a felling i will find a name soon.

[Loddfafnir113]

If you're keeping the link to Sigismund you could use him in the chapter name. Knights of Sigismund, Swords of Sigismund or something similar. Plenty of chapter names are linked to their Primarch and Sigismund would probably be seen with just as much reverence in some circles.

[Sete]

Well tbh Black Templars already are the Knights of Sigismund. I had tought of that.

But I think I have chosen a name.

Knights Exemplar.

My inspiration came from D.Nuno Alvares Pereira.

He was a general that recently has been turned into saint.

This can also be related to Sigismund, and my chapter will venerate him. And will use red and silver colors. Will expand on this after work. But im pretty sure this is it.

And my Elite will be Oath Brothers. Being knights and all :).

Exculpators gives them a very DA vibe. And I dont want them to be shady but the complete oposite. A shining beacon of valor and hope.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Sete

[Jape]

Knights Examplar fits your fluff and BA routes excellently, I'd definitely go with that.

[Sete]

So I have changed and rectified the lore a bit but it needs more work.

They will became a Fleet Chapter after the loss of the keep and chapter world.

It will fit the future lore better.

Need to think a bit more about the oath brothers.

They will carry a closed parchment with them, there is one on the BT upgrade Sprue, and will have some kind of reward after finishing the oath.

Now I'm thinking about the Colour scheme. adding red or green... Probably red shoulder trim with red chapter cross. or gold...

[Jape]

That parchment thing has just made me think of a chapter name - Oath Keepers. Mind if I bank it?

 

I like the Red Dragon fluff - the Astartes trying to be logical about their worship of Emperor but still putting a lot of mythology on to him. And The Land That Time Forgot home world is cool.

 

Given the BT heritage I think you could play up the pariah status of the 11th Company - I take it its a 'ghetto' for all psychic battle-brothers?

 

I'm not sure what you're implying about the STCs?

[Sete]

They worked for the mechanicus so they could rebuild their numbers and get new ships.

Oath keepers is cool go ahead and bank it! :)

Im dead tired from work maybe in the weekend I can focus more on this. Basically the homeworld was destroyed by a daemon invasion courtesy of the first deamon prince they help banish. Maybe ill go with some short story about it.

Inquisition and GK apperead and destroyed the world. Few marines escaped with some relics. After seeing the GK in action the mortally injured Chapter Master advises to form a psyker company to better fight the daemons.

The 11th company not quite a ghetto but they are still apart from their brothers. They will be more monastic and less knightly.

Bah im currently uninspired...

Need to work on the oath brothers lore but nothing comes up...

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sete

[Sete]

just read flesh tearers lore. It seems GW already had the dinossaurs idea. lol