ComradeKommissar Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 When I first came across the 40k Universe, I was completely drawn in by the Dark Angels. Robed super humans in adamantium armour sounded like the coolest thing since sliced bread. Then when I learned of Cypher I found myself a character within the universe that I was able to firmly latch onto and fanboy over, but with recent Dataslate that GW released specifically for him I feel torn. For the longest time I have wanted to field a Dark Angels Army with him as my Warlord and I know others have as well. Thankfully the rules do not forbid us from changing a few things here and there to compose a narrative for our armies if our opponent approves of it. I signed up to the site, hoping that my battle brothers could lend me their wisdom in creating a fair rule set for a Dark Angels Army. I have read all of the information that GW has released about Cypher and The Order. I even went as far as diving into the Horus Heresy Series to get a deeper perspective of it all. Taking to account everything I have read about Cypher and The Order I have come up with a few extra rules that I am hoping will be fair in regular 40k games. 1. When Cypher is the Warlord of your Force you may take Company Veteran Squads as a Troop Choice. 2. Models equipped with Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol within Company Veteran Squads gain the Blazing Weapons Special Rule. 3. Models with Inner Circle Rules gain Preferred Enemy (Everything!). I thought this would be a needed and lore friendly improvement as The Order trained their Knights to be more then just soldiers that kill. 4. This is one rule that I would like the most input on, Any Squad may take the Inner Circle upgrade for 25 Points. I based the pricing of points on how much an Icon of Vengeance costs for csm since it also gives them fearless. These are all the rules I could think of so far, but if you have any more please feel free to share it with me. If you disagree with any of the rules I posted for a Cypher Lead Dark Angels feel free as well to share your point of view. I would love to hear feedback from lots of my battle brothers on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 If you're fielding it as 30K I would see no problem, if it is 40K then it's contradicts every fluff up to date. As for rules itself: 1 - It's very cool without being overpowering but you should limit to 0-1 because there is only one Vet squad per company. 2- Also cool without being overpowering. Plasma pistols are not in a good place right now ;) 3- That is overpowering I believe. I would change it to preferred enemy: Xenos. The Order was created to fight monsters so I think it flows more naturally. 4- This one is too much because you already have 3 and Cypher as the Warlord, and so far you haven't been balancng good rules with limitations to the army. You can't have your cake and eat it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKommissar Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Yeah I was thinking it would make more sense in the 30k period, but then again in the 40k period there are those within the ranks of the Dark Angels that think Cypher isn't at all a bad guy. With how Dark Angels also approach things I could see another schism in the legion or maybe cypher himself creating a new DA successor chapter in the disguise of another person. Thinking over 3 and 4 after what you you said, I do think that prefered enemy on xenos only would make better sense and I totally understand how 4 was completely pushing things too far. Though the reason why I wanted to give out the inner circle buff for 25 points wasn't for the fearless, it was just to give them preferred enemy. To make the Plasma pistols more Viable. Would changing it to a 10-15 point upgrade and calling it something like "Knights of The Order" seem fair? It gives them preferred enemy xenos, but not fearless. One additional thing, limiting players to only take one vet squad as a troop choice doesn't really float my boat . . . I know companies have only enough for one squad each, but under the right leader and when under dire pressure wouldn't the chapter pool them together to turn things around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 One additional thing, limiting players to only take one vet squad as a troop choice doesn't really float my boat . . . I know companies have only enough for one squad each, but under the right leader and when under dire pressure wouldn't the chapter pool them together to turn things around? Yes, but then if you have Company vets as troops you can forget using Tactical squads because for a few points more the vets blow the tacticals out of the water. For me it's about maintaining some balance between fluff and gameplay. If you're allowed to have 2 Company vets squads as troops then you won't take Tacticals at all. Yeah I was thinking it would make more sense in the 30k period, but then again in the 40k period there are those within the ranks of the Dark Angels that think Cypher isn't at all a bad guy. With how Dark Angels also approach things I could see another schism in the legion or maybe cypher himself creating a new DA successor chapter in the disguise of another person. Sorry but you have to forward with proof of that. I would say that only about 1% of the Chapter knows who Cypher is or what menace he poses. I don't think that of 1% there (Azrael, a few Company Masters, a few of the Librarius and the Reslusiarch) are anyone that is rooting for Cypher or else he wouldn't be that high on the hierarchy. If you come into the angle that it is a Sucessor chapter that actually studied Cypher closely and is backing him up in 40K is a lot more plausible than the actual Dark Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKommissar Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Within his Dataslate it mentions in his entry that he is the nemesis of our collective chapters. That he is a being of Legend among The Unforgiven and even though it is forbidden to speak of him even the Novice Souts of each 10th Company has heard of his strengths and abilities. And I think atleast the max of 2 vet squads sounds alright, considering we have sammel, azrael, and belial that make termies and bikers troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 “Some of the Masters within the Dark Angels claim that Cypher is under the protection of some higher power and that he represents the Fallen Angels’ only chance of redemption.” Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Dark Angels (Enhanced Edition).” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. https://itun.es/us/oLrXI.l I think it's fair to say, given the above text, that some of the Inner Circle are rooting for Cypher... but that's not to say they would follow him on the battlefield (much less put their warriors under his command). Cypher somehow forcing a schism within a Successor Chapter and gaining some followers from it sounds more feasible... but still almost impossible in the grand scheme of things. The fact of the matter is, Cypher doesn't seem interested in that sort of thing. He seems to wish to test members of the Inner Circle for his own ends, but he never tries to recruit them. He does lead Chaos Space Marines and Imperial Guard alike, but generally as dupes and on a temporary basis at that. The most feasible thing that I can think of would be a force of reformed Fallen (the kind that rejected Chaos to begin with) who use Dark Angels rules. EDIT: “Those who do not know the truth behind the history of their progenitors still recognise Cypher as the nemesis of their collective Chapters. Although it is forbidden to discuss such things, even novice Scouts of the 10th Companies have heard of the deadly prowess of their most elusive enemy. ” Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Dataslate: Cypher - Lord of the Fallen (Enhanced Edition).” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. https://itun.es/us/KKe3U.l That Dataslate is full of so much fun background information... and some passages like the above, which are almost impossible to take at face value - IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKommissar Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Then how exactly should I field cypher as my Warlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Then how exactly should I field cypher as my Warlord. his datasheet proverbs it. It's not a matter of if it can be done or not, cypher can never be a warlord for any army; period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 That datasheet is wonky. If only the high ranking members of the DA know about the Fallen, how do even scouts know who is he and of his battle prowess? Rubish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 That datasheet is wonky. If only the high ranking members of the DA know about the Fallen, how do even scouts know who is he and of his battle prowess? Rubish! they probably tell tales of his deeds prior to the heresy but then say that he has "mysteriously disappeared" and hail him as a hero and valiant dark angel. and then when they get closer to the inner circle the tale is told even further gradually dumping them into the truths about the fallen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKommissar Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I know the dataslate says I can't field him as my warlord, but if my opponent allowed it for some good old narrative fun to go with my dark angel army. Which are all wearing robes and untop their caliban green armour. With a bronzed gold paint used for emblems and trims since some of the older shots of the dark angels that tried to fight against luther had armour of green and gold, I thought making it green and bronze gold would make them look worn and it does. As if they have been alive for centuries. Having Cypher lead them just feels right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If your gaming group lets you, do what makes you happy. It's your hobby, don't care about what we say... :D Difference of opinions is not a bad thing as long as everyone is happy. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sesslec Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm really trying to work up a DA list with Cypher in it too. Love his rules and fluff!!! Seeing as it has to be an unbound list when he is in your army, it frees me up from my normal drive of maxing out objective secured units. I'd be interested to find out how he a actually plays out on the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKommissar Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 I ran my army dark angels in his fallen formation, 3 full squads of fallen that infiltrated in and wrecked :cuss turn one and two. Slowly cleaned up the rest with assaults lead by the chosen then he would jump in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I would suggest that #3 should be PE monstrous creatures. After all the order wasn't slaughtering anyone who opposed them, they were hunting chaos beasts. You may want to add that you can challenge a MC even if it wouldn't normally be able to. And in a challenge with a MC you may give up half your attacks for +2S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The text about some among the Dark Angels regarding Cypher as being protected by a higher power and being their best chance at redemption could easily be interpreted as the Chaos Gods being the higher power and our best chance at redemption by capturing the greatest threat to the chapter that has ever lived. It doesn't mean that anyone in the chapter is rooting for him. Interpretation and wordplay, meanings within meanings, isn't that at the very core of our glorious chapter? As to the idea of Cypher as Warlord, I say no. I'm too much of a traditionalist to allow such traitorous filth into our ranks. From a gamer's perspective though, it is an awesome idea . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 No offense, shortysl, but that is a very stretched interpretation of the "redemption" statement from the Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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