Sheesh Mode Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Last night I faced off against two hundred and forty eight boys, ten nobs with power klaws, and a warboss with a super cybork body and a claw. I lost after spending four turns trying to clear out his hoard with my vindicators and haphazardly attempting to tank shock his army with my landraiders. I realize now that I was in no position to assault my opponent with the numbers at his disposal, certainly not in the piece meal fashion that I did. However, I still find my powerlessness in the face of orky onslaught disturbing particularly as my chosen normally excel against large groups of packed infantry. But a 10 - 1 ratio of Orks to marines is too much for them to face alone. My friend and opponent suggested I bunker up next time, simply sit in a corner, destroy everything that comes near me, then assault him when I have no other options left. I see no other real means of winning against a unit that spans the length of the board and is capable of WAAAGHing every turn from turn 2 on. That is not to say my situation is hopeless, merely very difficult. So, what do you all suggest? How best can I use my particular style to win against this enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Force ld-checks whenever possible. Don't forget about dangerous terrain either or anything that can eat away at his numbers over the course of a game. Usually completely wiping a unit is preferred, but against hordes it can be better to bring several units down in size. Hopefully to a point where they no longer can kill enough to win combats even with the charge. Try to get the charge, it makes a huge difference vs orks. Use positioning to make sure he can only engage with a minimum amount of models every turn. If you can focus on one flank you can prevent him from using his numbers to the fullest. You'll have a chance to break him or at least force more ld checks. Tank shocks are a good idea, they can also be used to cut off models in the same unit from each other, thus preventing him from going full out like I mentioned above. Remember that he has to stay 1" away from any unit he's not engaged with. Try to slow him down and make his models and units always take the long way around, or through dangerous terrain. Your own armor can also be used for LoS shenanigans, allowing you to force wounds on models that he might be hiding in the back of a unit (commonly nobs). Sure he'll get LoS! rolls, but he's bound to fail eventually. Positioning and movement is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 was this a 2k point game because thats a lot of boys. And i had a similar experience vs a ork player, but he was running 4x30 ard boys, and some lootas and a warboss and 2 painboys. I tied up 1 squad with a ironclad for a while, used another to assault the lootas and then just threw all my fire into 1 of the 30 man squads with the warboss till they all died while backing up, then repeated on squad 2, charged the 3rd one (2 chapter masters :D ) and then got charged by the 4th squad after it cleaned up the dread, lost most of my guys, then hit and ran out and gunned em down. just refuse flank deploy him, or move to one flank and focus down a squad until its low enough to take penalties to ld tests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Here let me explain. This is part of a codex supplement that requires the player take ten squads of Boyz and a Warboss. The whole army is a single unit and has a modified leadership table (d6+2) and can waaagh for each turn after turn 1. Has anyone here fought that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 One of the members (Ming) just recently posted a batrep on here dealing with that exact Codex Supplement I believe: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299419-ultramarines-vs-the-green-tide/ I'd agree that tank shocks would be useful, but another thing that could help you out is: why not tank shock with Destroyer Blades!? Put enough vehicles with Destroyer Blades in there and you'll be doing D6 S5 hits with each tank! Also if you have the IA13, give one of your Land Raiders the anti-Ork Legacy of Ruin to give the Destroyer Blades an AP value (I think that's what it does) and let's you tank shock +D6"! So there's some more tank shock shenanigans for you! Another thing you could do is give your Chosen Flamers or Terminators with Combi-Flamers so that when he charges you you can get anywhere from 6 D3 overwatch hits (5 Flamers + Combi-Flamer) or 5 D3 overwatch hits. Make making him charge you hurt. I don't know if Heldrakes could work well enough since it seems like he'll be taking lots of board space and make it harder for you to place your Drake. Maybe take multiple Allied Detachments and fill them up with Havocs w/ Autocannons and Forgefiends? Just dakka like you've never dakka'd before! EDIT: I'm not sure how many Rhino's and Land Raiders you have, but I could envision a few Land Raiders and multiple (potentially empty or filled) Rhinos with Destroyer Blades running a muck inside that giant Ork blob. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Do you only have Chosen at your disposal ? Like K&F said, getting the charge is absolutely mandatory against Orks especially when fighting a large squad of 248 boys ! The number of extra attacks you will deny them is just tremendous ! If the entire unit spans the entire map, I would have the following strategy : let him go first, do not attempt to Seize, and deploy a squad of 10 Raptor at a flank, the closest you can to the left or right table edge. He'll move and run probaby, then charge him with that squad on that flank. Because of how the rules are made, he'll be forced to pile in his entire army towards your Raptor squad. And because the unit is one large unit, it will mean that all the boys on the other side of the board will not be able to fight. Then proceed to charge him at different points of the line in order to force him to split his forces up or be destroyed. In essence, you create a virtual choke points where his boyz are slowed down by his other boys by trying to reach your Raptor squad. You'll destroy as many as will pile in. More importantly, he will likely not wipe out your entire Raptor squad before you can get reinforcements. You'll have to make sure you have different units to create multiple choke points and replenish your losses on that flank. The key bit is to not let him charge ! Do that and enjoy Thermopylae ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 If the entire unit spans the entire map, I would have the following strategy : let him go first, do not attempt to Seize, and deploy a squad of 10 Raptor at a flank, the closest you can to the left or right table edge. He'll move and run probaby, then charge him with that squad on that flank. Because of how the rules are made, he'll be forced to pile in his entire army towards your Raptor squad. And because the unit is one large unit, it will mean that all the boys on the other side of the board will not be able to fight. Then proceed to charge him at different points of the line in order to force him to split his forces up or be destroyed. This is an interesting idea. I'll keep it in mind, thank you Grey Cow. I primarily run chosen due to preference and taste, though I do have raptors I can assemble. My list consisted of two mark of khorne chosen one with two lightning claw pairs, two meltas, one combi melta, one power axe, a power fist and an icon of wrath. The other with two power mauls, two power swords, two flamers, and an icon of wrath. They are accompanied by Khârn and a warpsmith with the mark of Khorne and an aura of dark glory respectively. Both units are inside of landraiders with dozerblades, extra armor, and dirge casters. I supported my landraiders with two vindicators with siege shields and daemonic possession and a squad of plasma chosen in a rhino with a dozerblade havoc launcher and dirge caster. (I realized later I was playing an unbound army, but that didn't really affect the game.) My current list: Khârn The Betrayer Chaos Lord w/Mark of Nurgle/Power Fist/Lightning Claw/Aura of Dark Glory/Blight Grenades Chosen (8+Champion) w/2 Lightning Claw pairs/2 Melta/1 Power Fist/Icon of Wrath/Mark of Khorne/Champion w/Poweraxe/Combimelta/boltpistol Chosen (8+Champion) w/3 Power Maul/2 Flamer/Mark of Nurgle/Champion w/Lightningclaw/Combiflamer/Boltpistol Chosen (5+Champion) w/5 Plasmagun/Champion w/Combiplas/boltpistol/Closecombatweapon + Rhino w/Havoclauncher/Dozerblade Cultists (9+champ) autopistols/knives/ champion w/shotgun Landraider w/Extraarmor/Dirgecaster/Dozerblade Landraider w/Extraarmor/Dirgecaster/Dozerblade Vindicator w/siegeshield/combibolter Vindicator w/siegeshield/combibolter 1999pts A tactic I have in mind is to deploy both chosen squads as close as possible to the ork horde (probably around turn 3) shoot into the hoard with bolters and flamers from the nurgle squad and charge in with Khârn's squad. Then charge in with the nurgle squad in my subsequent turn for further annihilation and as a buffer between Khârn (my Warlord) and the rest of the army. It is entirely possible that I will deploy my chosen early on and use my landraiders to troll the ork horde, but I'm not certain that's actually a viable strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatespinner Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This sounds like a job for Heldrakes. Baleflamers would cut huge swaths of death through that meatball and it sounds like he had very little in his army that would threaten them in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 How many flamers can you pack into a list of chosen? That many Boyz surely don't like masses of templates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I will be playing in a 1500pt tournament at my flgs next month, the Green Tide is likely to make an appearance and there is a possibility two players will field the formation. I have determined at this point that the best way to make effective use of my chosen against such a massive army is to rapid-fire into the blob with portions of my force, while the rest assaults it. Then support the original assaulting squads with the chosen who stood and shot. This will mitigate the handicap of being un-able to assault out of stationary rhinos, and make my new Raptors all the more useful because they will support Khârn's chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshalZappin Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I don't know if you tried this in your game or not but having both LRs troll is actually a pretty good maneuver as you can literally create a significant barrier that the orks must pass around. Combine that with the edge of the board and terrain and you can filter them into an area and choose how many to fight(figuratively since technically you are only limiting their movement. I would then use the tactic mentioned above of drawing them to engage a unit on one side while splitting them on others. draw them to your vindicators (or raptors) then filter them then get out of said LRs and engage them to draw them apart(effectively negating the waaagghing too). You can feed them units to tar pit while you take objectives also! And one thing you may also consider(at least it was viable in 6th) but using the LRs as a wall for the Vindis. LRs start flat in front of Vindis then on Movement you move them apart. For shooting use the vindis(try not to scatter- works better with preds) then LRs flat out to close the wall again to finish out the shooting phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 That's very creative MarshalZappin, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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