New guy needs some advice please

[Bigred9001]

Hi there everyone! I'm pretty new to 40k, been playing a couple months now, and I have a problem. I have absolutely no idea how I'm supposed to beat tau and dark eldar. The massive amount of shots mean I usually get tabled pretty quick. Now I know that a big portion is my own inexperience and poor deployment choices, but I just don't even see what I can do. Versus Tau I get shot getting close and then overwatched to death on the charge. I could shoot them first but That just leaves me getting out shot by superior numbers. Dark Eldar I can get close and get a good charge but as soon as i kill what i charged everything else just backs up and shoot me to death. Are space wolves just not good in these match-ups or is it just my inexperience?

[Reichfaust]

Hi there everyone! I'm pretty new to 40k, been playing a couple months now, and I have a problem. I have absolutely no idea how I'm supposed to beat tau and dark eldar. The massive amount of shots mean I usually get tabled pretty quick. Now I know that a big portion is my own inexperience and poor deployment choices, but I just don't even see what I can do. Versus Tau I get shot getting close and then overwatched to death on the charge. I could shoot them first but That just leaves me getting out shot by superior numbers. Dark Eldar I can get close and get a good charge but as soon as i kill what i charged everything else just backs up and shoot me to death. Are space wolves just not good in these match-ups or is it just my inexperience?

 

Well I don't have a lot of experience against DEldar (new codex or otherwise) but Tau are my second army so I like to think I know how to beat them. I need a little more info to get an idea of what the match up is like. What kind of units is your Tau opponent using, and what kind of Space Wolf force do you have?

 

(if he's running triple Riptide or triple 3-man Broadside teams, then Emperor help you)

 

EDIT: Just saw this was your first post. Greetings, and welcome to The Fang!

[Bigred9001]

Well I don't remember exactly but I know it was 2 riptide and 3 units of broadsides with a couple units of fire warriors and a big hunk of marker light drone things. Oh and 2 crisis battle suits I believe. I tried having several units of twc and multicharge to lock up his whole army but got over watched to death and I tried out ranging him with long fangs and ml to take him out with blast templates but riptide ruined my day. Every other game is fun and I know I have a chance when I don't make dumb mistakes but tau is just urgghgh. Thanks for the warm welcome btw! I've been reading thru the threads and everybody here seems great and nice. Its awesome

[Bigred9001]

Oh and I noticed he bunches his army up together really badly. He wants that fire support thing where everyone over watches together so that's why I tried ml. It also doesn't help that his whole army has preferred enemy space Marines. I get hatred from it but I've never got that far lol.

[Frater Cornelius]

DE may spam you to death with massed poison and those S5 AP2 thingies, but they usually have the life expectancy of a snowman in an oven. Quoted from a local DE player: When I write a 2k point list, I always plan in 1k casualties at the very least.

The idea is to get pressure up. Drop Pods help. Venoms and Raiders can get shot down by Bolters. Their infantry dies when a GH gives them a stern look. So, you can GH in pods, Dreads with 2x TLAC, Sicaran Battle Tank, Long Fangs with Heavy Bolters and a Lord with a 2+ to tank for TWC (they tear apart TWC without a tank). DE ignore toughness, so good saves and aggression are your best bets.

 

Tau is tricky, but same applies. Regular Tau infantry and even Crisis without a tank go down faster than Sororitas in almost every story about them, when put under pressure. The only unit capable of taking abuse is the Riptide. However, without markerlights the Riptide is worth little compared to Crisis or Broadsides.

You want pods again, but this time you require very careful deployment, lest you eat full Intercept fire. Focus down Markerlights, Crisis and Broadsides. If you want to melee, go towards his weaker flank and roll it up. Frontal assault is suicide.

Tau is the second-strongest codex right now after Eldar, so you need skill to beat them.

[Bigred9001]

Okay I'm gonna try the pod idea. Thanks a lot.

[Baulder]

Pods and outflanking can do a number on Tau. Also consider having decoy over-watch units in your army (e.g. lone wolves). Charge them first to soak up over watch then charge again with your actual unit that you intend to do damage. Once you are in combat tau are going to struggle to do anything meaningful since they cannot win in a fist fight and they cannot shoot into combat. Also consider flamers for your pod units for that extra gun-line/infantry toasting. Also kill the marker lights first as they will be boosting the shooting of the army.

 

Dark Eldar can be a bit harder to handle, I play against them a lot. They have great range as their vehicles are all fast moving, for these I'd suggest anything you can get str5 and up for vehicle popping. When popping their vehicles you need either ignores cover or you need to nuke them in combat. They are made of wet paper so they go down fast but jink can be annoying as it doesn't cause a problem for the 10 models inside with their splinter racks. For DE an armoured company really makes them pause for thought. Sure they have dark lances but move your rhinos so that they can't get a clear shot (for cover saves) and the majority of the rest of their weapons will do nothing. Also consider vindicators as the blast on these can be put over the unit next to a vehicle, this prevents them jinking as you are not targeting the vehicle itself and jink must be declared before you roll to hit so they cannot do this once it has already scattered on to them. Finally, flamers do a number on DE in transports as you hit the unit inside. So get 10 GH, jump out of your rhino (using it to block LoS to the GH from the rest of the DE if possible) pop flamers on the vehicle to toast 2*D6 evil space elves, chuck a krak grenade and then fire 14 bolter shots to attempt to glance it to death, you'd be surprised how effective it can be. 

[Frater Cornelius]

I find 3 to be adequate most of the time. However, I would avoid the empty pod, but rather get a cheap unit. 5 Bloodclaws with flamer come to mind, or 5 PAWG with combi weapons.

[Baulder]

found a venerable or regular dread in a pod is not bad these days. Cheaper than PA and gives the enemy something to think about, plus against DE it can't hurt to have some str10 ready for the T2 charge.

[Bigred9001]

What does pawg stand for? I'm still working on all the abbreviations for everything

And if I run 3 pods do I just try and drop close and shoot what I can of their army (marker lights first) then charge in and kill em? Or do I just need to play the shooting game against them?

[benane]

Power Armor Wolf Guard

[Bigred9001]

Oh thanks. You guys are awesome

[benane]

No Problem. Beem there myself as I'm just starting and building and painting my first 40k army. There are some Acronym threads in different forums (don't know about this one though) that helped me a big deal to understand the pros in here ;)

[Bigred9001]

I think I'm getting the hang of it slowly lol. First time I popped in here I saw a list someone posted that was 100% acronyms. That totally threw me for a loop.

[Rift Blade]

Welcome to the Fang brother. Another suggestion against Tau is a Damacoles Class Rhino out IA2. Gives SW's an Orbital barrage & helps with Reserves. I find with Tau, the more aggressive you are the better. It's gonna be bloody no matter what you do so charge with multiple units. My two cents & good luck.

[Baulder]

try avoid the shooting game with au, you'll lose every time since they are better at it. On a side note, have you considered putting deathwind launchers in your pods? 15pts upgrade for a str5 large blast, just make sure you position your models so that they are unlikely to have the template scatter on to them. It can really help soften them up and can help you clear marker lights before you unleash the bolters.

[Bigred9001]

I didn't know it was a large blast. That's awesome. Can I fire that the turn the pod drops?

[Baulder]

It can now (not in the 6th edition though). It is AP- but can wound tau on a 2+ I think so it not too shabby.

[Bigred9001]

I thought it had to snap fire when it dropped and that you couldn't snap fire blast weapons. That makes that a whole lot better

[Baulder]

It is a recent change, now the vehicle counts as having moved combat speed (I think), meaning that they can fire 1 weapon at full BS.

[Bigred9001]

That's cool. I'm gonna double check my big rule book when I get home just to be safe. Plus it never hurts to read that thing more. I notice something I missed every time I open it.

[Bigred9001]

Oh one more question. Tau has the support fire thing where everyone within 6" can over watch with the unit being charged. Does the player declare who all he is over watching with at the beginning or can he shoot me with one unit and if I live decide to shoot me with the next. The first way is better for me cuz he could devote too much to one unit and not have anyone left to over watch my next charge but the second way is perfect for him.

[Baulder]

hmmm, not sure. I would think he needs to declare whom is overwatching (all of them) prior to rolling to hit. Otherwise he could just keep declaring until your unit is gone and not waste any unnecessary shots. Don't quote me on it though :)

[Bigred9001]

Yeh that's what he did and it just seemed a little unfair. But again. I shall consult the almighty brb

[BT_Cennar]

hmmm, not sure. I would think he needs to declare whom is overwatching (all of them) prior to rolling to hit. Otherwise he could just keep declaring until your unit is gone and not waste any unnecessary shots. Don't quote me on it though

This. Otherwise you could do same things with Tanks like LRC or LRR or any other multiple gun vehicles with POTM where you have diferent weapons. You choose prior to shooting wich gun you fire with POTM and rest goes to one target. I would not alow my oponent to decide whether he is using 1 or 5 of his units in overwatch range to shoot at me. If he is treated by 3 of my units and i declare a charge with all 3, i want a decision wich of his units is overwatching wich of mine. There is no time on the battlefield to standby and watch if you comrades handle the threat bythemselves and if not add your fire to help them.. Choose before i charge and live with it.