The Marines Scimitar

[Jape]

Marines Scimitar

 

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Founding Chapter: Imperial Fists

Founding: Twenty-Third Founding

Chapter Master: Iskender Bey

Homeworld: Jahannam

Fortress-Monastery: The Hilsari

Colours: Bone, Charcoal

Speciality: Siege Warfare, Assault

Strength: 1,000 marines

 

The Marines Scimitar are a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists, established during the 23rd ‘Sentinel’ Founding in the 38th millennium to protect the Verana Sector, then a barely inhabited region teeming with worlds ripe for colonisation. Like their progenitors, the Marines Scimitar have a reputation as siege specialists, combining long-range artillery with mobile assault groups to crack the enemy lines. When on the defensive the chapter are known to utilise terror tactics both in pre-emptive strikes and -controversially- against wavering Imperial citizens. They take their responsibility as guardians of Verana very seriously, feeling to give up even a single world to aliens or heretics is a shameful act to be done only temporarily and as a last resort [1]. As such the scorched earth tactics used during the Tyrannic Wars were considered by the Marines Scimitar to be a crime against the Emperor himself. To this day relations remain frosty with the Ordo Xenos.

 

The Marines Scimitar’s sanctum is located on the death world of Jahannam which orbits a bloated, red sun. Known as the Hilsari (simply meaning ‘keep’ in the local tongue), their fortress-monastery is cut into the highest mountain peaks. Jahannam was also once the single source of recruits for the chapter but following a destructive Ork invasion which saw 90% of the population wiped out [2], the Marines Scimitar looked to the numerous worlds of Verana under their care to collect what is now known as the ‘blood tax’. Regardless new recruits are rigorously schooled in Jahanni language, customs and philosophy, and are even given a new name on induction. Seven centuries on from the Ork attack 80% of battle brothers, including the current chapter-master Iskender Bey, are drawn from the blood tax and yet there is no doubt as to where their loyalties lie.

 

The chapter has inherited the Imperial Fists’ focus on self-control and martial honour; although as with everything it is heavily influenced by Jahanni culture. Fasting, psychoactive drugs and isolation in the deserts of their homeworld are all used by the Astartes to connect with the Emperor, while disputes are settled by Ghuta contests, a highly stylised form of wrestling dating back millennia. New recruits are also instructed in two skills that are very surprising to outsiders, namely gardening and poetry. The former on Jahannam is considered an art form in of itself, with practitioners battling the harsh environment and utilising limited resources of soil and water to create something beautiful. It is a test of patience, conservation and creativity. The latter serves a more direct purpose as a way to chronicle the chapter’s history and praise the God-Emperor. A skill with verse is highly valued and Astartes often enter battle, their power armour adorned with lines of such poetry written the night before.

 

 

[1] Shadow Oath: Long an arid planet, the pre-Imperial beliefs of Jahannam included the idea that anywhere a shadow fell was holy ground. Newly arrived missionaries taught that the Imperium was the shadow of the God-Emperor on earth and wherever its servants went, his blessing followed. As such all Imperial worlds are holy in the eyes of the Marines Scimitar, and their battle cry is “We are His shadow, He walks beside us”.

 

[2] Sack of Jahannam: Surprise attack by Waaagh! Mongork in 258.M41. Having greatly underestimated the Ork presence within the sub-sector, the chapter’s homeworld was lightly defended when hundreds of thousands of greenskins descended from orbit. Although the fortress-monastery held, the planet’s feudal-level population was slaughtered and the ancient irrigation systems used to maintain their garden-cities were destroyed, triggering an ecological disaster that turned the already harsh environment into a wasteland. The Marines Scimitar have reached out to the Mechanicum to help repair the damage and in payment have launched countless missions to investigate the rumoured locations of STCs however little progress has been made.

[Sete]

Im going to be honest they have a very cool arabic feel.

The warcry is very good.

Not sure about gardening and poetry. Especially poetry.

As a veteran I can say gardening gives you a lot of time with yourself. But i guess sculping the bones of your dead comrades is more weird and "GRIMDARK"! Interesting idea. I like it. Did you got the blood tax inspirarion from the Janissars?

Edit: Color scheme is sober, and I like it. Not into fancy schemes.

[Jape]

Yes it is the Janisarries, the chapter started out as wholly Ottoman themed but I've drawn more broadly from bits and bobs of Middle Eastern history.

 

The gardening and poetry I added to go against the grain (though the poetry is not much different than Space Wolf sagas) and give them a contemplative vibe, that they are capable of great cruelty (impaling people on spikes) but aren't ravenous psychopaths, its simply a grizzly means to a holy end.

[Sete]

Well I would like to read more on them. Go at it.

[Jape]

Cheers. Oh and thanks on the colour scheme, its always the bit that drives me crazy.

 

I think about it more the gardening sounds silly but I hope with more writing to get across the chapter's 'conservation' philosophy, though no they wont be joining Green Peace anytime soon. Basically they were raised on a world that required immense effort to become habitable, using what they had wisely. They see the galaxy in the same way, most of it is void or planets made of molten lead and its filled with evil xenos and daemons, so you need to look after what you've got ie Imperial worlds. As such tending your own little plot in a desert hellscape is ideological as much as medidative.

[Loddfafnir113]

I really like this. Very well written and I think brings the identity of the chapter across very well. When I read the word gardening I was, to say the least a bit surprised, but I think it makes a lot of sense within the whole. I get the impression that it's like a form of meditation for them, and I actually really like it as a unique little quirk of the chapter. I definitley vote for keeping it in!

[Tiberius Cato]

Very nice stuff here, brother. Maybe you can expand on the gardening a bit. Surely the marines don't faff about with just roses and pansies? Maybe each brother perfect his skill until he has a miniature oasis that he maintains over the course of his life that acts as an area of meditation and reflection for him?

[Veteran Sergeant]

Not really sure the name makes sense.

 

You have two nouns next to one another in a combination that is supposed to be descriptive.  The Marines Errant are like Knights Errant. They're on an adventure/travel/quest.  Marines Malevolent are evil Intentioned. Angels Penitent are penitent. Angels Vermillion are dark red colored. Marines Vigilant are, well, you get the picture.

 

It's a noun and adjective combination. They're Marines, but specifically, a kind of Marines (repentant, angry, questing, dark red colored, etc). What you have are two things that aren't related mashed together. Marines that are... sword.

 

 

Aside from the siege specialists thing, which I've always found kind of silly in the era of Chapters since sieges are probably one of the things Space Marines would never do and are poorly equipped for, I like your background. It's got a lot of fun little details that hopefully you can expand on. I like the idea of the Chapter's homeworld's past. I don't know what garden cities are, but they sound cool. 

 

And I think the word you were looking for above was "raving" psychopaths. Unless you just meant they were really hungry, ;)

[Jape]

Not really sure the name makes sense.

You have two nouns next to one another in a combination that is supposed to be descriptive. The Marines Errant are like Knights Errant. They're on an adventure/travel/quest. Marines Malevolent are evil Intentioned. Angels Penitent are penitent. Angels Vermillion are dark red colored. Marines Vigilant are, well, you get the picture.

It's a noun and adjective combination. They're Marines, but specifically, a kind of Marines (repentant, angry, questing, dark red colored, etc). What you have are two things that aren't related mashed together. Marines that are... sword.

Aside from the siege specialists thing, which I've always found kind of silly in the era of Chapters since sieges are probably one of the things Space Marines would never do and are poorly equipped for, I like your background. It's got a lot of fun little details that hopefully you can expand on. I like the idea of the Chapter's homeworld's past. I don't know what garden cities are, but they sound cool.

And I think the word you were looking for above was "raving" psychopaths. Unless you just meant they were really hungry,

I'll hold my hands up, the name is purely based on 'sounded good in my mouth' it doesn't actually make sense. I've passed through a few alternatives. One thing i've throught through redrafts is that they're not direct IF successors but Iron Champion successors, just because I like those guys. The Champions stay around to help develop the chapter and you get a blending of Dorn-esque rigour and Jahanni culture, which leads to the.... Iron Scimitars. Dunno, its an alternative. I want this to be a basically Codex chapter but with a strong Middle Eastern feel so I want the name to reflect the theme in a broad way - if I can say that without sounding boring.

I appreciate all the comments guys, i'll be posting new fluff asap

[Jape]

Couple of questions with regards to the 'religion' of my chapter.

 

The idea is Jahannam went from being 'lost' to the Imperium, to becoming a space marine home world in little more than a century. Part of the reason it was chosen was because the Jahanni fervently embraced the God-Emperor - no worries about cannibalistic cults or totem worship. So you have members of this new conversion suddenly being told by their Iron Champion handlers that actually the Emperor was just a man. How do you think this juxtaposition would effect them?

 

My idea is that the Jahanni take this on the chin and simply see it as the Emperor's human form being a Christ-like deal - its a vessel for God. You also have all the 'specialists' - the Chaplains, Techmarines, Librarians etc. forming a council of wise men and their learning is pooled leading to some bleed through. So they take the scientific Imperial Truth but taking from the teachings of the Omnimissiah isn't technology simply proof of the divine, with machine spirits etc? Then you have psykers accessing the warp which is where the Emperor's guiding light resides and struggles against the 'devils' of Chaos, is this not the heavenly dimension?

 

Basically after taking on the straight religion of the Ecclesiarchy, the Jahanni instead of abandoning it for the Imperial Truth, absorb it into those teachings, plus those of the Mechanicum and the truth of the Warp into a mystical 'universal theory'. Now while is an unorthodox position when placed against the Ecclesiarchy, the ultimate message- the Emperor is indeed a god is not. How would this effect their relationship with the Ecclesiarchy and with other 'rationalist' space marines?

 

EDIT: I also had the idea that the Iron Champion is charge of their training is slowly won over by their cult's mystical interpretation and ends joining the chapter as their first Chaplain - is this believable?

 

Another idea is that after the Orks ravage Jahannam, smashing the Dark Age ecological machines that keep it habitable, the chapter oversees an evacuation, leading to Jahanni exiles communities throughout the region, namely to the 'blood tax' worlds the Marines Scimitar now recruit from. This creates a strong bond with the chapter and Jahanni priests through this exodus spread their sub-cult which though differing from the chapter's own beliefs have plenty of cosmetic similarities. How would the Ecclesiarchy feel about this? Would they be reassured there is a Space Marine chapter that holds beliefs very similar to their own or fearful as it crosses the seperation of powers? That if they want the Marines Scimitar could raise a holy army aross the sector?

 

I even had the idea a Marines Scimitar captain at some point while helping to fortify a frontier world has a 'vision' that return of the Primarchs is approaching and a holy army must be raised to begin the new Imperial golden age. Still isolated on that world more pragmatic brothers kill him and his followers and cover up the whole affair, claiming they were attacked by pirates. In this they are successful but opponents with an axe to grind may stumble across the reports on the suppossed pirate raid and notice all the details don't quite fit together...

 

___________________

 

Other thing. The chapter's Shadow Oath - that all Imperial worlds are inherently sacred - leads to disgust when Kryptmann and his followers begin destroying planets to starve the Tyranids. One idea I had is that in protest all veterans of the Deathwatch discard their Inquisitorial shoulder pads, basically thumbing their nose at the Ordo Xenos. The Inquisition is furious but when the winds change, leading to Kryptmann's trial they are unable to do anything. However the Ordo Xenos is now gunning for them. Is this believable or would such a protest lead to immideate punishment?

[Loddfafnir113]

With regards to the religious influence on the local populace, I can't help but feel its a bit over-complicated. If the locals were alreay happily worshiping the Emperor, albiet with a few un-heretical quirks, I see two likely senarios. The first is that the chapter is happy enough with the situation, not bothering to devote time and resources to convert the population and just beating the proper Imperial creed (or their view of it) into its new recruits (I think this is generally how chapters go about it). The second is that the chapter are hard line enough to be offended by any deviation of their views and would go down the route of "What a lovely stone idol you've erected to worship. We're just going to tear it down and replace it though, please voice any complaints to that chap over there with the flamer". Now its not unthinkable that an Imperial Fists successor would go for that option, but the work you've done on the chapter in the first post contains quite a few customs and quirks that give the impression this didn't happen. I'd actually go as far to say that Jahanni culture seems to have influenced the chapter more than the chapter has influenced Jahanni culture.

I think the spread of the Jahanni cult after the Ork invasion is worth developing. I could see the Ecclesiarchy start getting a bit concerned, forcing the chapter to continually give reasurances that they aren't planning a religious coup of the system. How would the chapter react if the Ecclesiarchy on a particular world outlawed Jahanni religious views and started exectuting the priests?

The marines turning their backs on the Deathwatch is a really nice idea. As far as i'm aware sending marines to the Deathwatch isn't mandatory and as marines aren't technically answerable to the Inquisition, they could tell them where to go and the Inquisition can't do anything about it. Or rather, they can't do anything official about it. But, would all the members of the chapter who have served or are currently serving in the Deathwatch be happy to turn their backs on them? When split between a sacred oath and the views of their brothers, would they all go the same way? It's quite a small thing but I think it opens up a lot of opportunity to develop the views and beliefs of the chapter in big ways.

As far as the name goes I like it. Doesn't make complete sense, but I think it rolls off the tounge quite nicely. Not the most convincing argument I've ever put forward but it's all I've got

[Jape]

You make some really good points, thank you.

 

In relation to both the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition a major influence is that I see Iskender Bey - the current Chapter Master - to be quite 'political'. He is not Jahanni by birth and so really understands the effect the chapter has had across the blood tax worlds and the leverage he can pull because of it. Actually that in of itself is something I want to expand on, that Jahanni culture is effectively 'undead', Jahannam is, save those serving the chapter within the fortress-monastery, uninhabited yet it still has a strong pull on surrounding worlds.

 

I haven't explained it yet but an idea is that the Sector was back in the 38th Millennium a 'land of oppurtunity' a relatively empty new region ripe for colonisation - but its also on the frontier and has slowly been declining as the Imperium has, with the sector being forced to increasingly look to its own defence. Recently there has been a secessionist revolt - it went dreadfully but it was focused heavily on the sector capital world, which has led to a mass purge of the planet's aristocracy and the capital being moved to a relatively minor world. It is increasingly being talked about that the Marines Scimitar are the only trusted power in the region and that it might be best if they play a greater role.

 

However the Marines Scimitar are not the Ultramarines, the idea of the them ruling a sector brings to mind Badab rather than Ultramar, so Iskender wants to tred carefully. The Deathwatch I imagine would be controversial but Iskender sees it partly as a test, forcing the Deathwatch veterans to break their oath to prove their true loyalty to the chapter. He is canny enough to know the tide is turning against Kryptmann so the rejection of the Deathwatch is also partly to say to the conservatives in the Ordo Xenos - "look Kryptmann has gone too far, if you don't deal with him we're done with you". Again the Marines Scimitar are big fish in a small pond so this could well be part of a broader protest by other groups.

 

The Ecclesiarchy on the other hand, I could see Iskender making a compromise - the Church leaves the blood tax worlds alone but the chapter will abandon the Jahanni communities beyond them to the 'purge' you suggest. Which helps him strengthen his grip on a little fiefdom while keeping the Church onside.

 

I see this all as a slow perversion of the Marines Scimitar's original purpose, to protect the Verana Sector - as things slide down hill Iskender through a combination of sincerity and cynical power hunger comes to believe it would be best if the people bow to his superhuman brotherhood for their own sake.

[Jape]

Just going to be adding some extra stuff piece meal about notable characters, battles, history etc., please give some C&C if you have the time, then I'm going to bring it all together in a nice fancy IA article.

 

Jahanni Terms, Relics and Rituals

 

Bey Translating from Jahanni simply as 'Lord', Bey is attached to the end of a Chapter-Master's name on ascension to that position and will be addressed as such from then on, even after death. There has only been one instance of the title being removed, that being Bayezid the Penitent.

 

Katiba Collective noun used for the Captains of the chapter who are often called upon as a group to weigh on important decisions. Individual captains are addressed as Katib.

 

Qadi Collective and singular noun meaning 'wise men/man' used to refer to the Chaplains of the chapter. There is no head chaplain, with the Qadi forming a collective authority. Any battle-brother deemed to have commited wrong doing is tried before the Qadi.

 

Basmiri Translating loosley as 'galloper', it is a reference to the outriders of the nomadic tribes of Jahannam and has come to mean someone who is frenzied and impatient. This term has been gladly taken on by the Assault Marines of the chapter.

 

Pilav A bland rice dish native to Jahannam, associated with the simple life of a soldier. At a Katibpilava banquet the captain of a company will present the dish to his men. If they refuse it, it is a sign of their lack of faith in their leader. Though very uncommon, such refusal will almost certainly end in the captain's demotion before he is brought before the Qadi to receive his penance for poor leadership. A Beyerpilava is a similar ritual relating to the Bey himself who presents the meal to the entire chapter. No leader has been refused at a Beyerpilava and a chapter master will sometimes call for the ritual to reassert his dominance during a crisis. The most recent example was in 997.M41 during the "Deathwatch Controversy".

 

Sword of Usman Named for the Iron Champion captain who oversaw the founding of the Marines Scimitar, the Sword of Usman is the holiest relic to sit within the bowels of their fortess-monastery. It is presented to a new Bey by the Qadi as a form of coronation. Legend states if the sword is lost the chapter will fall.

 

Iron Scimitar A small curved sword designed in imitation of the Sword of Usman made from raw iron. It is a purely ceremonial weapon which each neophyte must forge himself before he can be deemed a battle-brother. The maker puts a drop of his own blood into the molten metal before it cools and is encouraged to mark the dagger with an inscription in Ancient Jahanni.

 

Heroes of the Marines Scimitar

 

Iskender Bey

Born on the agri-world of Ambrose V, Iskender left his green home for the deserts and mountains of Jahannam at the age of 10. As katib of the 4th Company he became renowned for the Dardarian Campaign of 909.M41 in which he and forty battle brothers rallied the frontier world against a full blown Tau invasion. Iskender made use of ambushes, booby traps, double agents and psychological warfare to cripple the xeno offensive. Infamously he had a dozen enemy commanders, including several of their leadership caste, captured and impaled on spikes on a hill above the Tau camp. After months of grinding guerilla warfare the sight broke the invaders' will to fight, leading to their complete withdrawal from the planet.

 

Following the disappearance of Kemal Bey in 915.M41 the chapter was ruled collectively by the Katiba. Finally in 925.M41 after a decade of searching, Kemal was pronounced dead and Iskender elected to the position of Bey. He has overseen a turbulent period for the chapter leading them against Hive Fleet Kraken, the Chaos Temple of the Black Star and seemingly unending Ork Waaaghs! Heavy losses stemming from these campaigns have seen the Marines Scimitar exert greater control over the blood tax worlds leading to worries that Iskender is establishing a personal empire. The Bey has been quick to reject any such allegations.

 

Iskender has become known across the Imperium due to the "Deathwatch Controversy". Following a mass cleansing of Imperial worlds by Inquisitor Narnhem to starve a Tyranid advance into the Verana Sector, the Marines Scimitar loudly aired their disapproval. Unable to directly punish a member of the Emperor's Inquisition, instead Iskender ordered all veterans of the Deathwatch to discard their silver pauldrons which denoted their service to the Ordo Xenos. The order was deeply controversial, even within the chapter's own ranks. Gathering the battle-brothers for a Beyerpilava, Iskender effectively dared the veterans to defy him - which they did not, instead they dumped their pauldrons into a pile in the great hall which were then returned to the Deathwatch. The move was praised by several chapters across the Segmentum, but notably only the secretive Void Walkers mimicked the display. Though Narnhem and her patron Kryptmann are now persona non grata, the act of defiance has angered many within the Inquisition, the effects of which are yet to be felt.

 

Bayezid the Penitent

A chapter master renowned for his cunning, honour and bravery his name is sadly forever linked with the Sack of Jahannam. It was his decision not to recall the majority of the Marines Scimitar on word of Mongork's advance. When Bayezid finally arrived with a full 6 companies in tow to relieve the defence he was mortified by the destruction wrought upon his homeworld. The story goes that as the Orks were driven back by the reinforcements he handed the Sword of Usman to his lieutenant and charged into the greenskin ranks alone, hoping to find forgiveness for his hubris in death. It was not to be. His mangled body was found on the battlefield by the apothecaries and returned to the fortress-monastery. There he was preserved and put into a Dreadnought sarcophagus where he remains to this day, ever ready to find redemption at the hands of his enemies.

 

For obvious reasons he loathes Orks more than any xeno and led the 7th Company during the 3rd Armageddon War, where they fought extensively around Hive Infernus notably at the Battle of Stygies Bridge. During ritual gatherings it is Bayezid's honour and burden to recite The Flower of Jahan, the epic poem which chronicles the destruction of their homeworld.

 

Red Soluk

Katib of the 8th Company and de facto leader of the Basmiri, the informal fraternity of Assault Marines within the chapter. Native to the Ice World of Sebana III, Soluk received his nickname due to his pale skin and fiery red hair. He is known for his brash, jovial personality and is well liked within the chapter. The Basmiri adore him and dip their helmets in blood to mimick his appearance. Due to their skills, Soluk and his Basmiri have been called upon numerous times to launch lightning raids, developing a fearsome reputation as they went.

 

Most famously was the Massacre of N'shi. The An'Guem, a race of reptilean slavers, had once dominated the Verana Sector but the coming of the Imperium and several devastating Waaaghs! shattering their mighty empire. By 979.M41 a new An'Guem emperor had reunited his race, promising a crusade against the Imperium. Pre-empting this Soluk was ordered to lead 100 Basmiri to the emperor's palace on N'shi. Deep striking right into the midst of the Imperial court, the marines preceded to slaughter the nobiltiy of the An'Guem Empire. The emperor, his harem and the vast spawning pools which produced his heirs were incinerated and thousands gunned down or run through. By the time reinforcements arrived the Basmiri were already leaving -a mere twenty minutes after their arrival. The Massacre, having wiped out almost the entire ruling class, crippled the hierarchal An'Guem precipitating a period of anarchic civil war that rages to this day.

 

Kemal Bey

Officially Kemal was a brave warrior who died valiantly in 915.M41 fighting the traitor marines of the Temple of the Black Star. In reality his is still alive, a prisoner of the Temple. Tortured and humilitated for decades, it has been the secret mission of the Marines Scimitar to rescue him. However over the years as the weight of his plight took its toll he caved in to the Ruinous Powers, now little more than a plaything for the Daemon Prince Hastur. The Marines Scimitar guard this secret closely and now hunt for Kemal to kill his body and cleanse his soul.

 

Bystanders who have discovered the chapter's secret shame do not fare well. The PDF garrison of Pavan Minor, a frontier colony, were annhilated in 990.M41, officially the victims of pirates according to the members of the Marines Scimitar who first arrived at the scene. Reports of the incident are known to contain inconsistencies. Were certain hostile factions within the Administratum or Inquisition to investigate the matter in any detail it could have deadly consequences for the Marines Scimitar.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The problem I have regarding Kemal Bey, is the same I have regarding Games Workshop's canon regarding the Grey Knights: How would the average Imperial citizen- say, the Pavan Minor PDF- learn about the fact Bey is the Daemon Prince Hastur's plaything? And if they did learn- maybe because Hastur transmitted images of Bey serving is his plaything, to all planets in the sector- how could the average Imperial citizen be certain the "Kemal Bey" in Hastur's hands, is actually Kemal Bey?

 

Is that really a Space Marine, or an Ogryn? You say he's too intelligent to be an Ogryn? Is "Bey" naturally intelligent, or does the intelligence come from a Daemon bound within his body (which I, as an average Imperial citizen, still suspect to be an Ogryn's)? You claim he's Kemal Bey, late Chapter Master of the Marines Scimitar? I've never even seen the Chapter Master of the Marines Scimitar in this lifetime! Compare his image to known photos of Kemal Bey? I don't know- his face is very messed up. Besides, with the cosmetic surgery available to certain people- the planetary governor and his family, the Rogue Trader who visits once a decade, that charlatan whom the Marines Scimitar executed for claiming to be an "Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos,"- how can I be certain this is Kemal Bey, and not someone whose face was altered to resemble him?

[Jape]

I was umming and arring over this before, as even the general idea is a bit Dark Angels and it seems such secrets are quite common/over done. Also - would given the circumstances Kemal's capture and Stockholm Syndrome be something that needs to be hidden at all costs, after all there are traitor marines from even the most prestigious chapters (Iron Hand clan leaders come to mind)?

 

Alternative while keeping the basic gist, Kemal is turned but becomes a lieutenant of Hastur, leading raids etc. And occasionally leaves a survivor or two to inform the Imperials "I am Kemal Bey, your precious Astartes guardian angels are no match for the power of the Dark Side" etc. It might not even be the chapter's personal secret. As the literal sentinels of the Sector, other Imperial big shots might be keen to keep it quiet for propaganda reasons - a genuine government conspiracy.

 

What do you think. And any comments on the other stuff?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I was umming and arring over this before, as even the general idea is a bit Dark Angels and it seems such secrets are quite common/over done. Also - would given the circumstances Kemal's capture and Stockholm Syndrome be something that needs to be hidden at all costs, after all there are traitor marines from even the most prestigious chapters (Iron Hand clan leaders come to mind)?

 

Alternative while keeping the basic gist, Kemal is turned but becomes a lieutenant of Hastur, leading raids etc. And occasionally leaves a survivor or two to inform the Imperials "I am Kemal Bey, your precious Astartes guardian angels are no match for the power of the Dark Side" etc. It might not even be the chapter's personal secret. As the literal sentinels of the Sector, other Imperial big shots might be keen to keep it quiet for propaganda reasons - a genuine government conspiracy.

 

What do you think. And any comments on the other stuff?

I think it's best to say Kemal is DEAD, but the Marines Scimitar have yet to recover the body. The thing that Hastur claims is "Kemal Bey," and is parading around the sector as a demonstration of his and his Dark Gods' power? It's a Daemon bound within Kemal's DEAD BODY. (There's a precedent to Daemons using loyalist Marines' dead bodies as hosts. See Borchu, a White Scars Marine from the 'Legends of the Space Marines' anthology.)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As the Iron Scimitar is useless as a weapon, best shrink it to a medallion's size, so it may be worn as a talisman against evil. Why have Marines forge it themselves, instead of relying on someone with the skill to forge useful weapons, like a Techmarine? Let's say local legends believe a person's soul is revealed through his works, so the Chaplains will be watching the Marine as he forges the "Iron Scimitar," to check if the Marine is revealing signs of Chaos-taint in his soul- and in consequence, his works.

[Jape]

Good call on the possession, I might pinch that.

 

On the latter - is metallurgy a traditional route to the Dark Side?

 

The lil' scimitar I meant it more as its ceremonial and symbolic but can be used though iron weapons probably aren't much use on power armour. I imagine every marine having it strapped to his arm or something as a reminder both of their Jahanni routes and a literal reminder of their Iron Champion heritage.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good call on the possession, I might pinch that.

 

On the latter - is metallurgy a traditional route to the Dark Side?

 

The lil' scimitar I meant it more as its ceremonial and symbolic but can be used though iron weapons probably aren't much use on power armour. I imagine every marine having it strapped to his arm or something as a reminder both of their Jahanni routes and a literal reminder of their Iron Champion heritage.

Anything and everything can be a route to the Dark Side, in the right conditions. I was actually using the "Iron Scimitar's" shape as a SYMPTOM of Chaos-taint, not a source. See the "Khorne dolls" some peasants made to celebrate a harvest (in place of the traditional "corn doll," which is made from corn husks), in 'Brothers of the Snake'.

 

As for the Iron Scimitar itself, I thought it and its making were wastes of time and resources- time better spent in training or performing maintenance on a Marine's wargear, and resources better used for bolt shells and other weapons that are useful in battle. If the traditions of the Marines Scimitar hold an Iron Scimitar's forging in such importance, then a better reason is needed to make the fluff believable- hence my suggestion that its forging is actually part of a test, to see if Chaos has tainted a Marine recruit. They're supposed to put a drop of their blood in the molten metal that forms the sword, after all- who knows what a Daemon's blood will do to the metal?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Going with the "Kemal Bey is dead, and a Daemon now parades around in his dead body" idea, let's say the reason the Marines Scimitar wiped out the Pavan Minor PDF, was because "Kemal Bey" convinced the PDF to rebel against the Imperium? The sequence of events may be as follows:

 

1) The Daemonhost presents itself to the Pavan Minor PDF commander, claiming Kemal Bey's identity; as Pavan Minor is relatively isolated, the PDF commander doesn't know Kemal Bey is already dead.

 

2) "Kemal Bey" claims Pavan Major's governor is a Chaos worshiper, and then takes command of the PDF, intending to use the mortal soldiers to "restore the planet to the Emperor's light" (in truth, turn the planet to Chaos). As there are historical grievances between Pavan Minor and Pavan Major, the Pavan Minor PDF agree with the plan, and secretly begins building its strength; its goal is to become an expeditionary force powerful enough to conquer the other planet.

 

3) The Marines Scimitar intercept a PDF transmission in which Kemal Bey's name is mentioned. Curious, they dispatch a strike cruiser to the transmission's source.

 

4) Seeing the Marines Scimitar ship enter orbit, the Daemonhost believes its plotting has been uncovered. In desperation, it orders the Pavan Minor PDF to attack what it claims are "Traitor Marines." The PDF dutifully attack the arriving Marines Scimitar; meanwhile, the Daemonhost sacrifices the PDF commander to create a warp portal, and then escapes.

 

5) The Marines Scimitar crush the Pavan Minor PDF, take prisoners for interrogation, and learn the truth. Meanwhile, Pavan Minor's governor is voxing the loyalist Marines, demanding to know what happened. The "PDF are victims of pirates" lie is made up on the spot- Chaos Space Marines do commit piracy (see the Red Corsairs), and they use many of the same weapons as their loyalist counterparts- to explain things.

[Loddfafnir113]

 

Good call on the possession, I might pinch that.

 

On the latter - is metallurgy a traditional route to the Dark Side?

 

The lil' scimitar I meant it more as its ceremonial and symbolic but can be used though iron weapons probably aren't much use on power armour. I imagine every marine having it strapped to his arm or something as a reminder both of their Jahanni routes and a literal reminder of their Iron Champion heritage.

 

Anything and everything can be a route to the Dark Side, in the right conditions. I was actually using the "Iron Scimitar's" shape as a SYMPTOM of Chaos-taint, not a source. See the "Khorne dolls" some peasants made to celebrate a harvest (in place of the traditional "corn doll," which is made from corn husks), in 'Brothers of the Snake'.

 

As for the Iron Scimitar itself, I thought it and its making were wastes of time and resources- time better spent in training or performing maintenance on a Marine's wargear, and resources better used for bolt shells and other weapons that are useful in battle. If the traditions of the Marines Scimitar hold an Iron Scimitar's forging in such importance, then a better reason is needed to make the fluff believable- hence my suggestion that its forging is actually part of a test, to see if Chaos has tainted a Marine recruit. They're supposed to put a drop of their blood in the molten metal that forms the sword, after all- who knows what a Daemon's blood will do to the metal?

When I was smithing I found it to be an extremely spiritual thing. You start off with this dead lump of iron and you put fire in it, give it life as it were. Then you learn how to shape it, how to control where the heat goes, if there's a minor imperfection you have to know how hard to strike but precisely where to strike. The aim is to not leave any marks from the hammer in the work, if you so it right the surface shimmers like smoked glass. (here endeth the sermon :P)

 

I think you could write most of those things into a marines indoctrination and conditioning into the chapter, philosophy that puts their head into gear before they learn more of the chapters ways etc. with the forged scimitar serving as a constant reminder and a sort of trigger or anchor for the rest of the psychological indoctrination marines go through.

 

I've considered this carefully, because that's what I was planning to write in for my chapter but cut it at the last minute. Great minds think alike.

[Jape]

That makes sense Bjorn, cheers.

 

Exactly Lodd, that was what I was going for.

 

Right I've been thinking about my parent chapter and the tactics you get in the Codex. Really I prefer assault over firepower and I like my fluff about the Basmiri... 'speed cult' I guess.

 

So I'm thinking Raven Guard for their jump packs/scout/stealth or White Scars for bikes/hit & run. What do people think? I'm leaning to RG but how effective is hit & run?

[Sete]

Damn you added lots of stuff. Dont have the time to read all now.

Later today I will read it.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

http://www.cracked.com/article_20634_6-things-movies-get-wrong-about-swords-an-inside-look.html (specifically, Numbers 5 and 1) has important information on how swords are forged, and explain why I'm so cynical towards the idea of a Space Marine forging a sword as a rite of passage. The article states, "A single longsword can take anywhere from 40 to 80 hours of forge time. And THAT only nets you the blade. By the time you take into account making the pommel, guard and handle, that one sword might have as much as two weeks of full-time labor invested in it." To anyone other than a Techmarine (whose duty it is to make and maintain his battle-brothers' weapons), wouldn't those two weeks be better spent in combat training, if not ACTUAL COMBAT?

 

As for the Marines Scimitar's Chapter Tactics, it's probably okay to mix-and-match those listed in 'Codex: Space Marines' to get what you want. The same Codex states the Hammers of Dorn, an Imperial Fists successor Chapter, "are a stringent Codex Chapter and upholds the precepts and dogmas of the great tome with exacting precision. They even go so far as to claim that whilst Roboute Guilliman conceived the Codex, only the warriors of Rogal Dorn can truly master it," meaning this Imperial Fists successor Chapter likely uses ULTRAMARINES Chapter Tactics, not Imperial Fists or Black Templars Chapter Tactics. If you still can't find what you want, it's probably okay to use those from http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/FWchaptertactics-v2.pdf, or even make up your own- with you opponents' INFORMED CONSENT, of course.

[Sete]

About blacksmithing well neophyte training takes some decades so maybe they smith while hearing sermons from the chaplains.

But dude you need scimitars as power swords. ;)