On the Table: Logan Grimnar

[CatSmasher]

Hello gents,

 

I'm hoping to start a series of brief posts where all of you tactical geniuses can help me make informed list decisions.

 

I want to start with;

 

Logan Grimnar

 

Firstly, from a fluff perspective, I love this character. He and Arjac are the main reasons I chose the SW for my first foray into 40k

 

From a table top perspective I am slightly less enthusiastic. As it stands I think fielding him on his chariot is an interesting option however. In an list that is based upon movement and assault I feel that Logan may have a place. Its difficult to imagine Logan not making it across the table. I understand his short comings in combat verses some of the other superheavies and lords of war, but I think Logan would be great for busting up all types of infantry, causing a midfield distraction, and creating cover for other units.

 

His survivability is my main concern, but with the right exploitation of Chariot rules I can imagine he's be tough to take down. The "only glance" feature is a nice way to mitigate meltas and other specifically anti armour weapons. When you combine this with av 12 and a 4++ it seems like you'd need some very particular circumstances to get him off the table.

 

With his hammer of wrath and adaptable weapons profile he would be a great unit to deal with infantry squads, with my only concern being the distribution of wounds being dictated by the opposing player.

 

I will be running Logan this weekend in my regular home game with Tau, with a cavalry and alpha strike formation. I will use the cavalry to run around to objectives and counter his deep strike to defend my own alpha strike. I have a feeling that the HYMP will provide me the most head aches, but I feel relatively safe against his plasma teams, which traditionally give me the most trouble.

 

Please let me know what you think, and take a moment to share your experiences with Logan. I am particularly curious about his formations. I just got Hour of the Wolf and with all of the options out there, it may be a paralysis by analysis scenario

 

Thanks in advance.

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello gents,

 

I'm hoping to start a series of brief posts where all of you tactical geniuses can help me make informed list decisions.

 

I want to start with;

 

Logan Grimnar

 

Firstly, from a fluff perspective, I love this character. He and Arjac are the main reasons I chose the SW for my first foray into 40k

 

From a table top perspective I am slightly less enthusiastic. As it stands I think fielding him on his chariot is an interesting option however. In an list that is based upon movement and assault I feel that Logan may have a place. Its difficult to imagine Logan not making it across the table. I understand his short comings in combat verses some of the other superheavies and lords of war, but I think Logan would be great for busting up all types of infantry, causing a midfield distraction, and creating cover for other units.

 

His survivability is my main concern, but with the right exploitation of Chariot rules I can imagine he's be tough to take down. The "only glance" feature is a nice way to mitigate meltas and other specifically anti armour weapons. When you combine this with av 12 and a 4++ it seems like you'd need some very particular circumstances to get him off the table.

 

With his hammer of wrath and adaptable weapons profile he would be a great unit to deal with infantry squads, with my only concern being the distribution of wounds being dictated by the opposing player.

 

I will be running Logan this weekend in my regular home game with Tau, with a cavalry and alpha strike formation. I will use the cavalry to run around to objectives and counter his deep strike to defend my own alpha strike. I have a feeling that the HYMP will provide me the most head aches, but I feel relatively safe against his plasma teams, which traditionally give me the most trouble.

 

Please let me know what you think, and take a moment to share your experiences with Logan. I am particularly curious about his formations. I just got Hour of the Wolf and with all of the options out there, it may be a paralysis by analysis scenario

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I personally prefer the Hour of the Wolf unit that allows Logan and Arjac to combine with a WG TDA pack in a LR (any variant), and a second unit of WG TDA with another LR (also any variant).

 

While this can be streamlined for whatever one wants, the real strength is that two LR's tearing across the board with such massive melee potential inside each is a major tanking force for enemy fire, let alone if they can actually make it into CC!  The amazing thing is that this force, the two WG TDA are all WS 5 since they are a formation.

 

As far as downsides, Logan is protected in this formation if Arjac is with him; dice gods being as they always are, Logan would likely want to claim a Riptide for his kill list if he can, or die trying to bring one down in CC.  Play accordingly as you choose, and use or dismiss whatever of my advice sounds conflicting to you.

 

Logan has always been a little weaker on CC due to his BoR not being able to provide the 3++ he seems to need this edition; Arjac attached with him means he can replace Logan in any challenge, and while not cheap in points, it's far more effective to have Arjac take the challenges so our big leader can still do his task on the field of battle.

 

All food for thought; take as you wish, and hopefully this helps.

[CatSmasher]

Thanks for the response Karak.

 

I definitely like that formation, it is exactly how I imagine the space wolves would handle things. Sending in two bricks full of elite warriors to smash face. I think if you mixed the right amount of combi meltas, this would be a savage formation, and particularly useful for my home game. He has to bring Longstrike, to counter my LR, because he's afraid of getting swallowed up if he has to land too close to my forces for fusion range.

 

Does anyone else feel a bit anxious fielding named characters?? I sometimes worry that I won't give them an honourable death! I have had arjac die in some embarassing situations before. Thankfully none of the Fire warriors were strong enough to carry his shield or hammer, and so they have been passed on.

[skeletoro]

I haven't fielded my Logan model yet so I'm interested to hear people's experiences.

 

My thoughts:

 

1. He's a bit less tough in close combat due to the opponent dictating wound allocation. If he has taken uneven damage (e.g. has 4 wounds but only 1 hull point), your opponent being able to choose is a bother. That said, if you choose how to allocate shooting attacks carefully (you do get to choose this) and assault units that aren't in a position to exploit such openings, then it should be ok.

 

2. He is vulnerable to D Weapons - a D weapon can strip a few wounds or hull points quite easily, but if Logan had been 7 wounds (or 7 hull points) instead of a mix, he would be able to weather a single D hit fairly reliably. The 4++ helps but EW, glance-only and 4W/3HP doesn't do anything much to protect him from other Lords of War. Given that he is also riding solo, that's a but scary.

 

3. IA2 has an upgrade to give stormrider IWND. I am unsure if this helps with wounds too (the rider and mount are supposed to be treated in all ways as a single model so perhaps it is legit) but either way, IWND is a nice little perk for stormrider.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I'd like to chime in on this discussion, as it is also one dear to my heart.

 

Unless Logan is run in the Arjac Land Raider formation, he really becomes a spendy Wolf Lord. It saddens me to say it, but it's true. Losing the High King hurt him as a single model. On his sled he is much better. I have been happy with him filling a deterrent / counter attack role. I will run him with TWC so he can keep up. For giggles one game I threw a Rune Priest on a bike and had him charge up behind Logan and a 6 man pack of TWC. He had successfully cast Endurance on Logan. For that turn, he had Eternal Warrior again!! YAY!!...

 

I will mention yet again... I love the new model. The figure itself is so feral and majestic. For my tastes, they nailed it. His sled is also amazing. The relief work on the sides add a viking effect to the model. They are by far, my favorite part of that model.

 

End of Line

[Mal Luck]

Think Rhapsody hit the nail on the head. He is at this point an over-priced Wolf Lord. He can perform admirably in most game settings, but he is neither as killy as a custom Wolf Lord or as durable as a custom Chapter Master at the same points. And unfortunately it isn't just the loss of the High King rule that really knocked him down a peg, as previously he was both an amazing CQC character and a pretty huge force multiplier. His 18" +1 attack bellow really helped either a counter attacking or a charging army line (especially if combo'd with the old grey hunter Wolf standards). Hell, even his move from HQ to LoW hurt a lot because the best SW HQ choices are Wolf Lord beatsticks who out perform Logan anyway or expensive options like Bjorn, and it isn't very often wise to sink that many points into two beat sticks (outside of certain TWC builds, which Logan can't really help with) and if you are it is generally better to consider the cheaper and more points efficient Arjac.

Why neither Logan (the Wolf Lord) or Arjac (a kind of WGBL) are HQ boggles the mind, and really hampers any attempt to recreate the purely TDA component of their army (LoganWing) whilst sticking to the fluff, outside of very expensive formations of questionable worth.

Eh.. sorry for the rant that became. A subject close to this ones heart as well (see sig).

[DanPesci]

His 18" +1 attack bellow really helped either a counter attacking or a charging army line (especially if combo'd with the old grey hunter Wolf standards). 

 

This used to be amazing, i once had him run in a squad of grey hunters, I charged Ghazghull, and a full retinue of nobs , using the standard and logans yell, and preffered enemy off his high king.. had a WGPL in the squad challenge ghazgull in the first round, which allowed Logan to tank the wounds from the nobs - he managed 32 saves (2+ armour plus rerolls from the banner) without losing a single wound...and him and the grey hunters managed to kill around 10 nobs in the first round. He then went on to pan ghazgulls face in.

 

ahhhh..those were good times.

 

Have to say, not a huge fan of the sled, and with the opponent being able to choose where the wounds go in combat, its just too easy to smash up the sled and take him out that way.

 

Would deffo try out the twin raider formation though, sounds fun - just wish you could combine that with arjacs shieldbrothers :D

 

 

 

 

Why neither Logan (the Wolf Lord) or Arjac (a kind of WGBL) are HQ boggles the mind, and really hampers any attempt to recreate the purely TDA component of their army (LoganWing) whilst sticking to the fluff, outside of very expensive formations of questionable worth.

 

 

 

Can you not just run a standard lord in terminator armour, and use champions of fenris to run a load of wolf guard in TDA? Sure you can no longer run them as troops, but you get the WS5 payoff instead.

 

 

[Mal Luck]

Sure, you can run a TDA Wolf Lord & TDAWG with CoF. Very successfully in fact. But was specifically referring to Logan's place (or complete lack of) in such a set up. LoganWing still goes strong, albeit without the Logan.

Poor Ghazghkul, sounds like he didn't stand a chance. Nice job. :P

[DanPesci]

I dunno, id say the kingsguard formation has its place, sure you've lost the +1 attack and EW off logan, but you at least get High King back (oh and fearless).

 

Just have to pay the steep land raider tax, but id probably do that anyway rather than have a load of footsloggin termies.

 

Probably not that points efficient, but looks a lot of fun (again, i just wish i could run this AND arjacs shieldbrothers)

[CatSmasher]

Dudes, I did not realize that Logan did not have eternal warrior... That is about the saddest piece of news I've heard in a while.

 

I thought with his speed and volume of attacks he would be useful in breaking up my friends tau gunline/castle deployments and generally look awesome on the battlefield.

[Mal Luck]

Uh, Eternal Warrior is quite clearly listed under Logan's special rules in the 'dex.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Um, what? Logan most certainly still has Eternaal Warrior.

[callmeMrBadger]

I'm not with my dex at the moment but I'm certain Logan has eternal warrior. My thoughts were he tanks the high AP shots and all small arms fire and such go against the chariot. that would make him immune to anything strength 5 or less. even the S6 would be about 1/12 of stripping a hull point if they manage to hit him.

 

form memory - I think he's got 5 attacks on his profile, axe can be used at either S:+2 I:user AP:3 or S:x2 AP:2 unwieldy. this lets him hve 6 attacks on the charge or counter, which if foot slogging is gong to be a great character for challenges, given that's he's got EW.

 

on his sledge, he generates D6 hammer of wrath attacks at I:10, the dogs give 4 attacks S5 AP- rending I5, then his 6 normal attacks whenever you want them. he would be great for mopping up infantry, or for taking out vehicles with average rear armour (up to about 12 he should be able to do in a single turn). Immune to the majority of weapons infantry carry. biggest draw back off course is the model and that he's a bullet magnet.

 

I think it's use him so you can wipe a unit out on a charge, if he stops and gets tarpitted, then like all characters weight of numbers will kill him.

[CatSmasher]

Okay, great!

 

I thought he had Eternal Warrior... but I got so sad

[Oz of the North]

Logan Grimnar is eternal warrior, thankfully. Though the biggest thing against him is a custom wolflord on TWC is better for cheaper and can join a unit, where if Logan is mounted he is all alone.

[DanPesci]

My thoughts were he tanks the high AP shots and all small arms fire and such go against the chariot. that would make him immune to anything strength 5 or less. even the S6 would be about 1/12 of stripping a hull point if they manage to hit him.

 

 

 

 

Except as far as im aware, in close combat with chariots, its the opponent that gets to choose wether to allocate to the sled or logan. So it becomes very easy for them to strip enough hull points off the sled to kill him (which wastes a good 4 wounds and eternal warrior, and bypasses his inv save in CC) if they have a few S5-6 attacks...

 

so yeah, ive yet to use the sled version of him, but i guess as long as you're choosing what you charge smartly, and making sure you're killing enough stuff at I5 that they arent getting too many hits on the sledge in return..he could have his uses.

[CatSmasher]

 

My thoughts were he tanks the high AP shots and all small arms fire and such go against the chariot. that would make him immune to anything strength 5 or less. even the S6 would be about 1/12 of stripping a hull point if they manage to hit him.

 

 

 

 

Except as far as im aware, in close combat with chariots, its the opponent that gets to choose wether to allocate to the sled or logan. So it becomes very easy for them to strip enough hull points off the sled to kill him (which wastes a good 4 wounds and eternal warrior, and bypasses his inv save in CC) if they have a few S5-6 attacks...

 

so yeah, ive yet to use the sled version of him, but i guess as long as you're choosing what you charge smartly, and making sure you're killing enough stuff at I5 that they arent getting too many hits on the sledge in return..he could have his uses

 

I thought that Stormrider gets a 4++ as well, no?

 

My thoughts were he tanks the high AP shots and all small arms fire and such go against the chariot. that would make him immune to anything strength 5 or less. even the S6 would be about 1/12 of stripping a hull point if they manage to hit him.

 

 

 

 

Except as far as im aware, in close combat with chariots, its the opponent that gets to choose wether to allocate to the sled or logan. So it becomes very easy for them to strip enough hull points off the sled to kill him (which wastes a good 4 wounds and eternal warrior, and bypasses his inv save in CC) if they have a few S5-6 attacks...

 

so yeah, ive yet to use the sled version of him, but i guess as long as you're choosing what you charge smartly, and making sure you're killing enough stuff at I5 that they arent getting too many hits on the sledge in return..he could have his uses

 

I thought that Stormrider gets a 4++ as well, no?

[callmeMrBadger]

Stromrdier does get a 4++, that's why it's 1/12 not 1/6.

 

Oh I may not have made it clear when I said he can tank high AP shots, I meant shooting shots.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I agree that he 'shines' in the chariot, but is just become a thematic model due to better and cheaper options.

 

I run him as often as I can, because he is a King.

 

...how can you tell??

 

He hasn't got s#!t all over 'im.

 

End of Line

[CatSmasher]

Here he is so far

[callmeMrBadger]

one think that isn't mentioned and I only fund out at the weekend when I finally got round to spraying Stormrider, where the fin at the bottom of the chariot connects into that rock, all he weight of the model goes through that tiny area, it's so small that I managed to snap it twice, I get the feeling that it will be a real pain to transport and any knocks will keep breaking that join over and over again.

 

Pinning might just move the stress higher up the fin....

[Nadir]

Aaaand it has begun!

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/games-workshop-chermsides-conversion-brings-christmas-40k/

 

(I didn't want to create a new topic)

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I honestly had that thought the other day assembling some wood elf wild riders. Logan was on the table and I realized to rider steeds made perfect reindeer. It is cool/slightly sacrilegious to see it all done up.

[CatSmasher]

http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Santa-Logan-Grimnar-394x295.jpg

I will be testing him out against my Tau friends this week. I will take some pics and post a battlebrief if anyone is interested

[Donkalleone]

That Idea is so Geniuos its Mindbaffling. Good Job and great way to make that ugly sled into something intelligent while still keeping it the way it is.