Prot's Ultramusings: Part II - Ultra's vs. Orks - some pics

[Prot]

Hey guys, following up on my last batrep. Here is a quick one with just a few pics. Please keep in mind I'm just starting this army coming off of Chaos and Dark Angels for many years so I'm still proxying stuff, and trying to find a list I like.

Here's the basic setup:

Game type: Maelstrom. Mission: Escalation (Objective cards = turn number) Deployment was short edges IE: Long table format 12" off of short edges.

1850 Pts. Normal Battleforged Force Orgs.

ORKS: (by memory)

Boss on Bike w/ large biker squad including Pain boss (ugh)

5 Trukks with Nobs

1 trukk with Tank bustas (2 foot missile launchers and meltabombs)

12 Lootas in a Battlewagon (<-- nasty)

3-4 of those anti-air artillery pieces... basically tractor beams with Ammo Runts.

10 Death kopters w/scout Missile launchers.

1 Ork Dakka Jet

Ultramarines: 1850:

Tigurius w/ 3 Grav-Cents

1 Thunderfire Cannon

2 x 10 tacticals in Pods (melta + combi Melta. Plasma + Combi Plasma)

1 x 5 Sternguard in Pod ( 4 Combimeltas + 1 Hvy Flamer)

2 x 10 Tacticals in Las/Plas Razorbacks. Fairly slim wargear, 1 Missile launcher total, a couple of double armed Sargent and a melta gun x 2

2 x Stormtalons twin-Assault cannon, Missiles

The Game Setup:

-He won the roll to place objective markers first. We did spread them very evenly.

-He won the choice to pick table edges. So since we were going the long way, he took the side with all the major ruins and I had one ruin with some debris on both sides of it. It was enough for me to set up a fire base.

-He won the roll to set up, and go first, and elected to do so.

He set up as far up as he was allowed by the scenario. Which still seemed a fair distance.

+++ Most of the Ork Deployment. Standard. Non-thinking, drunken bumbling and jockeying for a typical straight line assault! (Off screen, 10 kopters).

My deployment was very conservative. Ultra's took the ruin and the Quad Gun hid beyond the ruin, while Tigurius and his 3 Grav-Cent squad took to the second/third floor of the ruin. (Cents are proxied by Deathwing and Tigurius by my DA libby)

Down below to slow the tide is the combat squaded tacticals, and on the far edges are the 2 Las/plas razorbacks each with a 5 man squad nearby. The rest was in reserves.

+++ Ultra's take a defensive position in the ruins while 5 man combat squads sit on the ground floor to slow the assault in the ruins. As well this 5 man combat squad + Las/plas razorback is mirrored on the far side of the ruins as well.

EARLY GAME:

+ I fail to steel the initiative. Orks scout with the Kopters and are a mere 1 and a half from my far edge Razorback taking out the Lascannon, and stunning it.

+ The Ork Bikes turbo, and they get +1 to their save, so have a 3+ Jink. However, as dumb Ork luck would have it, they reveal a mysterious objective which gives +1 to cover!! So now, about 12" away from my ruins are 2+ Jinking ork bikes with a Warboss! How pleasant.

+ Turn one fire power from orks is incredible. I can see, as usual, the Lootas in the Battlewagon are a massive threat.

+ My turn comes and with the casualties of weighted fire, and some seriously poor rolling, I lose marines, but do NOT give up First blood.

+ The Priority of the table for the Quad Gun is the Bikes. The techpriest loads the best round for the job and kills maybe 2-3 removing cover.

+ A BIG moment and the ever gifted Tigurius through the power of re-rolling, gets "Perfect Timing" from the Divination powers, removing cover from the Ork bikes! Of course with Prescience in effect, the Grav Devs unload on the bike squad but one Centurion is dead from the Lootas firepower and only 2 bikes go down.

++ Overwhelmed at the front, the Ultra's decide to smash into the backlines of the Orks and (not pictured) the loota battlewagon is blown up, 2 Lootas die in the explosion and are pinned! A HUGE break with some tactical precision and the guidance of the Codex Astartes! The Tactical squad falls in the ruins to reign down some bolter/melta fire on the Anti-air artillery.

+ The drop pods were a heavy decision. To Abandon the front line, and take the opponent's zone, or try to reinforce what appears to be a lost cause? That is something that often happens in this sort of game. I decided the Ork back lines were too undefended to pass up, and this might be my only chance at flipping the game around. Also my intent was to make the Orks turn 1 MAYBE 2 Trukks back to meet my new marines and give some breathing room to Tigurius.

+ Instersting note: The Sternguard are pictured above and in front of them was the Battlewagon with Lootas. The Sternguard flat out missed 3 combi-melta shots on rolls of 1's and the 4th hit, and pen'd 7. That was mightly lucky/unlucky depending on how you look at it.

+++ The last early game picture I take: You can see a small hole in the Ork Biker advance, but it is very early and the Ork army is at the doorstep.

MID GAME:

+ Ultra's take First Blood. The Orks are incredibly shooty for awkward midgets with no opposable digits for holding guns. And yet the still come hard at Tigurius. Another wound is placed on a remaining Centurion. They hold as Tigurius continues to get off Prescience, plus Perfect Timing. This heavily annoys the Orks but I still only wound on a 4+ since that is their save.

+ Eventually an Ork Trukk or two DOES turn back to meet the Ultra's who have deepstruck. A sort of mid-table mosh pit results with more (my third pod) of Ultra's dropping in to blow up a truck, and engage more close combat Nobs.

+ The Kopters explode my far Razorabck. It never got a shot off. The combat squaded Ultra's in front of it were over run with a pile of Tank hunters (Missile launchers). My rolling in assault and armour saves was incredibly bad... I changed dice halfway through... lol

+ Bikes and the warboss dwindled down, and smashed into the ruins. The greatly outnumbered Ultra's were hanging by a thread in the Ruins, but Tigurius remained calm in the midst of the bloodshed. Combat Squaded Ultra's tried to hold of the Warboss bikes that remained but fell. The other combat squaded Ultra's on the main floor tried to hold back a flood of more Truckk Ork Nobs that were disembarking into the ruins and assaulting (open topped trukks).

+ On my near side of deployment, I lost the second Razorback, and similar to the other razorkback it blew up without getting a damaging shot off. The combat squad which protected it, was down to one man, who was retreating to reinforce the falling fortification which had Tigurius in it.

+++++ Things look so bad, I'm ready to concede. It is only the bottom of turn 3, and I haven't had my half of the turn yet. I note that ONE thing works in the Ultra's favour. I've played completely tactically towards my objectives and as a result we are tied at 3-3. But the reality is my numbers are falling hard. I decide to continue on.

+ One Stormtalon actually came in on turn 2, tries to take down the Dakka Jet but only gets one hullpoint off it! Ugh.

+ Tigurius calls out the Tactical Chapter Tactic.... but it results in such mediocrity I'm at a loss to explain it. One tactical squad butchers 10 of 11 lootas. A second Stormtalon takes down a trukk to accomplish 2 Objective points at once!

+ I am up by 2 points, but the next turn most of my deep deployment is now being met by those Trukks.

LATE GAME:

+ Now in full combat, all thoughts of finesse are gone. It is a bloodbath of brutal close combats, and bone wrenching fistfights. I am losing almost all close combats. The Tacticals cannot hit enough on single attacks each, and the sargents have almost all (if not all) died removing my ability to challenge the Nob Boss' who have the better close combat weapons. I simply can't hit/wound enough, and am definitely losing almost every close combat on the table.

+ Finally the last hope in the Tigurius ruins die to overwhelming Nob Boys numbers. The flanks are completely down. The tacticals on the main floor are dead, the Quad Gun is destroyed by Kopters.

+ As the Quad Gun explodes, the Techmarine takes a move into the ruins seeing the remaining Warboss Biker, and 2 other remaining bikers (including the one that gives them feel no pain all game.) The Techmarine abandons his post to buy time for Tigurius and the Centurions. He fires off plasma and a flamer, taking the bikes down by one. Howling in pain the warboss calls his kopters in closer, and they riddle the Techmarine with rockets until he is merely pulp and ceramite armour at the foot of Tigurius.

+ The game hangs in the balance. The time bought by the Techmarine is well spent. Tigurius denies the remaining 2 Warboss bikes their cover saves, then riddles them with last 2 Centurions and even Feel No Pain will not save them. Ultra's score Slay the Warlord.

+ The remaining Trukk Boyz see the death of their warboss, but it does not deter. They rush up the stairs of the ruins, with Prescience still in effect, Tigurius snaps off a '6' with his boltpistol, fatally wounding the first Ork up the stairs. However I challenge the Nob Boss, and take one wound off of him BUT forgot to ignite the Force Weapon! He hits Tigurius back, wounds 3 times, I roll a 1+ 1+ 2+. Tigurius falls. Slay the Warlord gives a bonus (2 points) to my opponent! He is winning again.

+ Back at the Ork Deployment the 3 remaining Sternguard clean up the artillery unit, 10 Marines try to cover the Ultra's that are falling in close combat. Another trukk explodes, and few Orks remain as I can reinforce the slow grind of close combat there.

+ The Sternguard die, but my Stormtalon retaliates taking the last trukk down that was reinforcing the Ork deployment zone which aside from two Orks is now (barely) in Ultramarine control.

+ With nothing else to shoot at, my drop pods shoot at his Dakka jet which is down to one hullpoint. One pod rolls a 6 snapshot, and a 6 glance! Destroying the jet! (He never thought he'd have to jink a drop pod!!)

END GAME:

+ The points are added up and it has somehow come to an 11-11 tie! The game ends in Turn 5.

+ The battle degraded into two separate but extremely active warzones: My deployment zone had: 1.5 Centurions left! They were tied in with 6 Nobs still. He had in my zone about 8 Tank bustas still on foot, and a full 10 man Kopter squad.

+ As bad as my scenario was in my deployment zone, his was equally bad: I had an 8 man tactical squad, 3 Pods, 2 man marine squad, and a fully operational Stormtalon. He was down to 2 Ork Nobs.

FINAL NOTES:

+ Total blood bath, and some real issues came to light for me. The list still needs tweaking and the lack of close combat is incredibly apparent in this sort of game. I'm still figuring out the list and the Chapter Tactics which are... okay, but certainly not Imperial Fist feeling in ability. I actually think 4 Tactical squads is too much. It's too much of the same thing and a lack of hand to hand is definitely my weakness. There are only a few things in this list I consider untouchable, but much of it is simply 'okay'.

If you've actually read this far, thanks ! I have to close off this post and get going, but will return with a unit recap based on my last games and potential changes! Thanks again!!!

[markham82]

While one brother breathes we can still win the day.

That's easier said than done, its demoralizing to see your superior force going down to rabble( I refer you to picture 1). The good news here is that I've found that while it seems that we're always taking a massive hiding in the first turns while his massive units/ massive amounts of small units only lose a "few" models a turn each, towards the later turns we start to make our saves and his remaining units start to flounder.

The more experienced players can either confirm/deny this but I think it has to do with the inferior armies needing those extra bodies to be effective. For example it took me a while to realize the importance of failing a morale check because I know my guys will turn around next turn while his might not. I also think that's why Ork players enjoy them so much, they actually have to rely on things such as 2 S4 AP5 shots without skyfire to take down a flyer or 60 cc hits in a single combat to win them the game. Quantity is its own quality.

Ok there's your moral support now the other guys can give tactical advice.

Well done on pulling back a draw. We're a superstitious bunch( the dice is tainted)

P.S. Thought it would be nice to give you back some text

[Akrim]

RABBLE!?! Green iz best! Lol I'm the other player, here's the actual list:

 

Warboss - Blitzbike, Power klaw

Painboss - Warbike

11 Ork Boyz - 1 Nob w/ Big Choppa, Sluggas, boss pole, Trukk

11 Ork Boyz - 1 Nob w/ Big Choppa, Sluggas, boss pole Trukk

11 Ork Boyz - 1 Nob w/ Big Choppa, Shootas, boss pole Trukk

11 Ork Boyz - 1 Nob w/ Big Choppa, Shootas, boss pole, Trukk

10 Ork Warbikes - 1 Nob w/ Power klaw, boss pole

5 Deff Koptas (5x TL Rokkits)

Dakkajet - Flyboss

12 Tankbustas - Trukk

12 Lootas

Battlewagon - 2 Big Shootas, Reinforced ram

4 x Traktor Guns - 3x ammo runts

[Prot]

Akrim! You foul smelling, wobbly, manlet of an Ork! How dare you enter the sanctity of marines and befoul our great halls.

Different tactics might be in order for me. I might find that an army of mini-gunlines is just not my cup of tea. There is a feeling of... helplessness when you have 10 tacticals, each with one attack, stuck into 20ish Orks and you just can't get anything done. And the way a Kult of Speed works, it's impossible to avoid.

Tigurius is untouchable in this list. The stars were, him, the Centurions, the Stormtalons, and perhaps the Sternguard (without taking down the Loota wagon I was finished). An honourable mention goes to the Quad Gun.

Otherwise the list felt quite... mediocre. Tacticals, pods, Razorbacks especially.

I may try Raven Guard next. Perhaps something else... Crimson Fists. I roll an astronomical amount of 1's. Even compared to Orks.

[Aspecti]

I'm sorry, but what Quad Gun?

[Prot]

I'm sorry... I typed that up and never proof read it.... should read: Thunderfire Cannon. lol I don't know what I was thinking about when I typed that up. Perhaps all the talk of a Bastion with Quad gun was still on my mind (it was something I considered with Centurions on top/Devs inside.)

[Aspecti]

Ahh well that makes a lot more sense :D

 

Have you considered taking a Devastator squad with 4 plasma cannons, joining Tigurius with them and putting them on top(can't cast psychic powers other than witchfires inside) of the Bastion? With Prescience + Perfect Timing, they would have no trouble whatsoever taking out all those bikes and they should be relatively safe up there. Personally I rarely field more than three Tacticals, two in Drop Pods and one in a Rhino and in my opinion Razorbacks are way too expensive for what they can do. So I would drop one Tactical squad, replace it with Devastators, drop the Razorbacks and take Whirlwind(s) instead.

[Prot]

That is an interesting thought and pretty much similar to what I used to do with my Dark Angels using Ezekeil.  However, I find it better to just put the Devs INSIDE the Bastion for protection, and then by putting Tigurius with the Centurions, they get a Toughness 5 majority rule which is quite nice..... and of course 2+ save is better too. The 4+ cover save is icing on the cake.

 

Saying this, I admit I haven't tried it with Ultramarines. I've done it many times with my Dark Angels, and tried it with Imperial Fists. 

 

So far I'm leaning towards pulling a Tactical squad or something and actually going to add a close combat (Biomancy) vanilla Librarian and adding him to a squad with more CC ability. Maybe it's time I put some flamers in the list? Perhaps a double armed Veteran Sargent in the tacicals once in a while so they don't get sandbagged???

[markham82]

I don't feel like adding the cost right now(45 degree Celsius will do that to you) but I see that libby on a bike with a close combat command squad. Maybe make them a white scar ally for added goodness.

 

How about making your lasplas razorback a rhino with a 10 man tactical squad kitted with a plasma gun and lasscannon. You lose t/linked on your plasma and the squads going to be more expensive but you don't have to worry about weapon destroyed and if the rhino gets wrecked the weapons grow legs and keep shooting.

[Prot]

The Sternguard are probably coming out. The razorbacks are certainly a consideration (to remove) as they just aren't performing and I'm starting to think of just podding the rest of the troops or as you say a Rhino. The chapter tactics haven't quite lived up to expectation however, I blame myself for some of it.

[Aspecti]

If you can arrange a situation where you get to rapid fire a single target with three tacticals using the tactical doctrine... it's beautiful ^^

 

You shouldn't really rely on the chapter tactics too much though as they are highly situational. The biggest advantage you gain from playing Ultramarines is Tigurius.

[Prot]

Yea I agree. The Tacticals are still the backbone, but you can go too far and lack of specialization is the result I experienced.

 

The list feels very close I've had some great ideas that kicked off from a conversation with our Raven Guard brothers. I'll be incorporating those into the lists.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm liking your report.

 

Chapter Tactics work best if you can hit with quantity of Tactical Marines in the turn of use. The easiest way to do this is Drop Pod of course, with a minimum of 20 Turn one. Perhaps 30 but you'd need 5 Drop Pods for that.

 

Trick is certainly the timing.

 

Against Orks I can't sing praises of Honour Guard enough ;) they honestly love Orks.

 

Now, problem is their costs justify a Land Raider but that won't necessarily fit your theme. Without doing that, you just struggle with an assault option with Marines.

 

That's 7th edition though. Game is being spoilt by a lack of an assault phase and too much shooting.

[Prot]

I love the honor guard models. What us your standard loadout? Do you always take Calgar with them?

 

You're right though it does not fit my current scheme of high tactical count with fire support. The lack of elite units actually helps me with body count.

 

My next game is coming up and I have a Wip list with the hunter in it to try it out. I'll have the list up shortly.

[Captain Idaho]

I buck the trend in my load out to be fair. Chapter Master with the burning blade for the ap2 at initiative, power sword on the Ancient and Champion and the other 3 get power lances.

 

On the charge they're superior to power swords and a counter charge will see equal performance against anything less than 3+ save (actually 2+ too). Marines don't have the numbers to cope with 7 S7 AP2 attacks at initiative.

[Prot]

So no Calgar? Is that to keep them cheap? or for other reasons? Do you pod them or are we talking Landraider?

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I save points on Calgar and go Land Raider. If I could assault from any transport as long as it didn't move that turn I'd totally go Rhino and have a stronger army, but 7th edition is broken.

[markham82]

flame a truckk, steal the truckk, assault the previous owner

[Prot]

lol! sounds fun. If only I had a flamer in my army! I used to with the Sternguard, but pulled them... then put them in again in my latest list in the armylist section so who knows this might be valid. 

[markham82]

You don't see this often but an assault squad in a drop pod with two flamers only costs 95 points.