Caustic63 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Codex Chaos Marines is feeling fairly old now, and has problems dealing with a number of builds in the current meta of 40K. After a ton of thought I've come up with three articles outlining how I would change the book to make the army better while still remaining balanced and close to the fluff. Champions of Chaos: In addition to all the other features of this rule (being forced to challenge, and rolling on a table if you win) when engaged in a challenge your character gains one of the following additional benefits based on the Mark of Chaos he possesses (or lack thereof): Unmarked or Abaddon - +1 Strength in challenges Mark of Khorne - You always get to attack in a given round of combat, even if killed by an opponent at a higher Initiative Step. Simply remove your character after the Initiative 1 step is resolved. This does not include being killed by Overwatch. Mark of Tzeentch - You may re-roll 1 to Hit Roll, to Wound Roll, or Saving Throw in each Assault Phase. Mark of Nurgle - Your opponent suffers a -1 penalty to his Attacks characteristic to a minimum of 1. Mark of Slaanesh - To Wound rolls of 6 have the Instant Death special rule. Tell me what you think! I'm well aware that more comprehensive changes are need, but I'll post the rest of my 'ideas' in a separate post so each can be discussed more easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Why not just give mark of khorne +1 to the attack statistic? What is wrong with Mark of Nurgle as it is? Why is Mark of Tzeentch nerfed even further? Why have you buffed Slaanesh's attacks while making him as slow as the other marks when, fluff wise, speed is his trademark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 He isn't changing marks, just adding buffs in a challenge depending on the mark if I'm reading it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Holy smokes, I'm sorry. I'm very tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Codex Chaos Marines is feeling fairly old now, and has problems dealing with a number of builds in the current meta of 40K. After a ton of thought I've come up with three articles outlining how I would change the book to make the army better while still remaining balanced and close to the fluff. Champions of Chaos: In addition to all the other features of this rule (being forced to challenge, and rolling on a table if you win) when engaged in a challenge your character gains one of the following additional benefits based on the Mark of Chaos he possesses (or lack thereof): Unmarked or Abaddon - +1 Strength in challenges Mark of Khorne - You always get to attack in a given round of combat, even if killed by an opponent at a higher Initiative Step. Simply remove your character after the Initiative 1 step is resolved. This does not include being killed by Overwatch. Mark of Tzeentch - You may re-roll 1 to Hit Roll, to Wound Roll, or Saving Throw in each Assault Phase. Mark of Nurgle - Your opponent suffers a -1 penalty to his Attacks characteristic to a minimum of 1. Mark of Slaanesh - To Wound rolls of 6 have the Instant Death special rule. Tell me what you think! I'm well aware that more comprehensive changes are need, but I'll post the rest of my 'ideas' in a separate post so each can be discussed more easily. Here's my take: Undivided: This one fits well, or even +1WS. Mark of Khorne: They would probably be best represented with +D3 attacks whilst in a challenge. I think your rule is a bit odd... Just because Khornate Space Marines go berserk doesn't mean they'd be hitting at the same time as, say, an Archon or Greater Demon. Their berserker style, I believe, would be best suited in either giving them Hatred essentially every round of the challenge or extra attacks. Mark of Tzeentch: I like this one, but I'd say re-roll 1 die result of a 1 with to hit, wound and saving throws instead of simply choosing one or the other. Not sure if that's what you meant or not. Mark of Nurgle: This one is good, represents things like flies or flith of Nurgle. Mark of Slaanesh: Maybe reduce it to having the Rending special rule rather than having Instant Death, because that is a huge jump from what the other marks can do (besides the abilities from Tzeentch and Nurgle, which I think are pretty tame). Or even giving them FnP in a challenge instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Technically, speed is not a trademark of Slaanesh. Perfection is. Which would lead to precision but at the same time arrogance and possibly complacency ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Maybe I should have put this in with my other post. Either way, this benefits are intended to be small boosts to make the rule less of a drawback and more of an improvement to complement an intended play style. The Mark of Khorne rule is deliberately powerful because Khorne is supposed to be the god of battle and his bonus encourages you to take Unwieldy weapons knowing that you'll get to attack back with them even if you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe for Slaanesh, drop to I1 in return for a higher WS, S or an AP value. In effect you give ground to your oppoent in return for that perfect strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 These look perfectly sensible – and more importantly, fun! – to me. I'd be happy to play against an army using them. If you're still open to suggestions, could Slaanesh's be altered to force an opponent to reroll a successful to hit/wound roll? Just thinking to evoke the idea of the champion playing with his opponent; and it's a nice twist to affect their roll, rather than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Here's my take: Undivided: This one fits well, or even +1WS. Mark of Khorne: They would probably be best represented with +D3 attacks whilst in a challenge. I think your rule is a bit odd... Just because Khornate Space Marines go berserk doesn't mean they'd be hitting at the same time as, say, an Archon or Greater Demon. Their berserker style, I believe, would be best suited in either giving them Hatred essentially every round of the challenge or extra attacks. Mark of Tzeentch: I like this one, but I'd say re-roll 1 die result of a 1 with to hit, wound and saving throws instead of simply choosing one or the other. Not sure if that's what you meant or not. Mark of Nurgle: This one is good, represents things like flies or flith of Nurgle. Mark of Slaanesh: Maybe reduce it to having the Rending special rule rather than having Instant Death, because that is a huge jump from what the other marks can do (besides the abilities from Tzeentch and Nurgle, which I think are pretty tame). Or even giving them FnP in a challenge instead. For the Undivided Mark, I took inspiration from the old Codex (5th) where Daemon Weapons were customized based on the Mark of Chaos the Chaos Lord had, and in that book an undivided daemon weapon gave +1 Strength (plus the usual benefits). Giving +1 WS would be similar to the benefit 30K World Eaters get in a challenge and I had considered that, but +1 S is more useful to all characters while +1 WS would be more for HQ vs. HQ and sergeant vs. sergeant battles. For the Mark of Khorne, I agree that it seems a little odd but rather then go for the standard +A bonuses (which could also work pretty well) I wanted to give Khorne the most powerful bonus without giving Juggerlords and Khârn (who are already quite overwhelming) too many attacks in close combat. This ability is useful against faster opponents like Daemon Princes, Avatars, Hive Tyrants etc. while also being useless against slower opponents which provides a more precision boost rather then a general buff. For Mark of Tzeentch, I meant that each round you can choose to reroll 1 of the following rolls: To Hit, To Wound, Saving Throw. It's similar to the old challenge mechanic where you gained rerolls based on how many guys were standing around doing nothing. For the Mark of Slaanesh, this ability is based on the Paragon Blade in 30K which is quite an exceptional weapon. Rending would probably make more sense, but from my Legion special rules the character would already have it if you chose to play Emperor's Children (An Icon of Excess gives the unit Rending in CC and when firing Sonic Weapons) so I wanted this bonus to stack neatly with that one. Giving FNP in a challenge wouldn't make a lot of sense since if your unit has an Icon of Excess your character has it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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