msgson Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hi guys! (and ladies ) Yesterday I had a game against eldar with my wolves. I used a rune priest with divination and Helm of durfast, which ignores cover, and had him with my long fangs behind an aegis defence line with quad gun. This tactic worked surprisingly well against those pesky serpents. Since I fired with full BS against skimmers and with the ignore cover to avoid jink.. Have anyone else tried this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Nope. RP with Helm and a Quad Aegis cost you 185 at best. A Sicaran Battle Tank gets more shots, Rending and Ignores Jink as well as Tank Hunter for 160 points. The Aegis combo is limited by not being able to shoot ground targets very effectively. Use it only when you know you will face plenty of light flyers. In all other cases the Sicaran is superior (including heavy flyers and FMC). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z00Z Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 This exactly. The Sicaran is by far the best bang-for-buck 'ignores cover' platform for the astartes chapters. You'd be hard pressed to match both the firepower and defensive stats. Dont forget its also a fast tank. Its not the best across all armies, but for its pts cost its the most efficient for us astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It ignores Jink, not cover. He can still park his skimmers in ruins. Won't help him much though because he will be forced to stay back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgson Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Of course the Sicaran is superior in many ways. However it requires that your opponent allows you to field FW-modells.. most tournaments I play on, don't. The aegis also gives my long fangs some much needed cover. So overall, its a bit expensive, yes. But in my opinion still a durable choice if you face skimmer heavy armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgson Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 It ignores Jink, not cover. He can still park his skimmers in ruins. Won't help him much though because he will be forced to stay back. Yes, that is a good point.. with the aegis and helm of durfast even hiding in a ruin will save you.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 What really hurts the Aegis Quad gun is the lack of Tank Hunter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3868931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulv Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I have a question. If a Rune Priest with the Helm of Durfast joins a Long Fang pack behind an Aegis Defense Line and casts Prescience on the unit. Will he get double re-rolls To Hit when using the Quad Gun (either at full BS or at BS1)? Can he re-roll twice (1 x Helm, 1 x Prescience)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, as you cannot re-roll a dice that has already been rerolled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulv Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, as you cannot re-roll a dice that has already been rerolled. Thanks. I just found the rule. Re-roll "... and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once, regardless of the source of the re-roll" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, every re-roll in the game can only happen once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 My problem with having him pay for the helm of durfast in that setup, is that with the quad gun, you are only firing at BS1 against ground targets, so even with it being twin linked, your to hit rolls wont be great. As suggested the sicaran is pretty much unbeatable when it comes to dealing with lighter armour (especially those relying on jink) - but aye, the no-FW rules in some tournaments is a tough on e to get round (although ive also heard of some tournaments not allowing fortifications either). Trying to wrack my brain for a good use of the helm, but as im presuming it can only be given to ICs, and most of our good shooty psychic powers were nerfed with the next codex (e.g., it would have been awesome with the old living lightning), im kind of struggling.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, the aim of that combo is take out jinking tanks, which are all anti-grav, meaning the Quadgun can shoot at full BS. Problem is that it's no use outside of that role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3869954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 if I were to do it, I would probably use rapier platforms rather than long fangs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3870431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well, the aim of that combo is take out jinking tanks, which are all anti-grav, meaning the Quadgun can shoot at full BS. Problem is that it's no use outside of that role. Ahhhh really?? Must have totally overlooked that, thought skyfire was relegated to snap firing at anything that wasnt an out-n-out flyer. So anti-grav is hit at full BS by both weapons with and without the skyfire rule? Thats not quite as bad then, are there not quite a high percentage of anti-grav lists out there (ie wave serpent spam). A fair amount of players also bring some sort of flyer with them too surely? Admittedly its annoying in a tournament if you come up against some with no anit-grav/flyers...but then i guess thats just a gamble you have to take if you arent allowed FW and want to stick to our codex options. if I were to do it, I would probably use rapier platforms rather than long fangs. Agreed the rapier platforms are ace, but again, thats going to FW, which the op unfortunately needs to avoid. Also, was just checking the rules for the rapier on the forgeworld site..and it doesnt seem to say that it can be taken by a space wolves force? Has this been FAQ'd anywhere? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3870613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 SM Rapiers are nothing against the CSM ones. That is the reason I call the CSM ones 'Raper', they are that good. I actually consider the SM ones subpar. Heavy Bolters are okay against hordes, but he have better alternatives. LC with ordnance has a very low chancen to kill a tank in one shot, especially skimmers. The current Rapier rules are in IA2 v2, as usual :D Read the Skyfire rule. You can shoot zooming and hovering flyers, swooping FMC and skimmers with full BS. Everything else is BS1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3870622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 SM Rapiers are nothing against the CSM ones. That is the reason I call the CSM ones 'Raper', they are that good. I actually consider the SM ones subpar. Heavy Bolters are okay against hordes, but he have better alternatives. LC with ordnance has a very low chancen to kill a tank in one shot, especially skimmers. The current Rapier rules are in IA2 v2, as usual Read the Skyfire rule. You can shoot zooming and hovering flyers, swooping FMC and skimmers with full BS. Everything else is BS1. ta, aye not up to scratch on skyfire as ive yet to play any games of 7th yet where ive faced flyers (having only so far layed a couple games against a mate) So in that case, id actually say the aegis isnt that bad of a gamble for us...extra cover for those fangs if you want to bring them...nid players seem to be loving FMC, eldar love Wave serpents, and a lot of armies tend to bring at least one flyer. The helm seems a no-brainer if you are already going down that path (again, cant think of any other practical use for it other than this). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299580-aegis-and-helm-of-durfast/#findComment-3870700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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