Sagnus Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'm having a bit of a mind melt at the moment designing a MT army, if I take the airbourne formation are the 4 valks each separate or would I have to squadron them as that is 4 fa choices? Also can that be taken as my main force or would I have to take another detachment with the required force org chart? Finally would the formation get obj secured. I've been playing for many years but for some reason just can't get my head around this. Any and all help appreciated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 First of all, scrap everything you know from the past. Force Organisation Chart is no more! It is called Detachments now (for the most part). The Formation you are talking about braking the normal "rules" from the past, i.e. the FOC. Hence the Valkyries can operate alone. Also, a formation isn't a detachment on its own right. Its a Formation Detachment. Hence you still need a Detachment to act as you Primary Detachment. It will have objective secured if it says so in the formation rules. In your case, no they don't :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagnus Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ahh ok I think I get you. The formation says nothing about obj secured (was dine before that existed) so I guess no there. :(. And so for my army I would need a combined arms detachment (only legal one I can see for MT) and then the formation, does that sound right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well, now you can pretty much bring any model you want in your collection regardless of the Detachment Chart. Your army will be legal, but will be Unbound ! Detachments are organizational patterns of the army that bring benefits. For instance, the Combined Arms detachment (classic FOC) brings the ability to reroll your Warlord Trait as well as Objective Secured obviously ! Some codices do have their own detachment with their own detachment benefits, I don't know if MT has a specific detachment like Space Wolves or Orks do. So, you can choose to take the Combined Arms or choose not to, basically :) However, rerolling the Warlord Trait can be very potent, and objective secured is effective in every game type save for Purge the Alien, so it's up to you to decide whether you need it or not ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 To summarize: + The Valks are NOT Squadroned + That Formation is NOT Objective Secured + You still need a Combined Arms Detachment as Primary with a Warlord unless you are going Unbound Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 To summarize: + The Valks are NOT Squadroned + That Formation is NOT Objective Secured + You still need a Combined Arms Detachment as Primary with a Warlord unless you are going Unbound Correctomundo :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagnus Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Cheers for all the help guys, I get it now :) now need to decide if lack of obj secured is made up for by the formation special rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Cheers for all the help guys, I get it now now need to decide if lack of obj secured is made up for by the formation special rules. Oh, there is more to decipher from the new way to build an army list. If you have enough boots on the ground, objective secured isn't that all important. You could then blow him away from the objective instead. Also it all depends on your opponents. If they go all out on objective secured or not. Take AM, they can have a horde of units with this rule. making them hard to face unless you can take them all out fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3868989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagnus Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well I only really want to use MT, have a AM army already, reading some of the other posts im feeling 2 knights and then the rest on MSU squads to DS all over the place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3869085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, though I'm like 99% certain that I'm not, but cannot you actually build an entire army from just formations? I don't think you need a CAD or codex specifc detachment at all. You wouldn't get any detachment bonuses, such as the re-roll Warlord Trait and Objective Secured from CADs, but you still get to have a Warlord Trait at all (different from unbound) and you get to look down upon the unbound players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3869353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You can, but someone will have to find the page in the rulebook as I'm stuck at work :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3869532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, though I'm like 99% certain that I'm not, but cannot you actually build an entire army from just formations? I don't think you need a CAD or codex specifc detachment at all. You wouldn't get any detachment bonuses, such as the re-roll Warlord Trait and Objective Secured from CADs, but you still get to have a Warlord Trait at all (different from unbound) and you get to look down upon the unbound players. Thats very true... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3869903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Although an all flyers army will still end with you losing if you ever dont have models on board at the end of a game turn (turn one for instance). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3869934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The rules for formations are on page 121, to clarify a formation is essentially a detachment as the standard FOC we know and love is :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The rules for formations are on page 121, to clarify a formation is essentially a detachment as the standard FOC we know and love is :) Clearly stated that a Formation is a kind of Detachment. Question is can a Formation be a Primary Detachment? All it says is the Primary Detachment is the one with the Warlord. So I guess if the Warlord is in the Formation then it's the Primary and you don't need another Detachment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Exactly. I regularly use a Knight Paladin as my Warlord and it makes my Adamantine Lance my Primary Detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It sounds like its harder to make an unbound list than a Battle forged one :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I've a friend looking to form an unbound army that is basically formed from the best MCs in various codices. Wraithknights, Ripetides, and Daemon Princes with summoning. He has some kinda rationalization but it isn't good at all. That is what unbound is to me, an opportunity to take armies that don't make a lick of sense for reasons best described as 'because.' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I once proxied a beastmaster list for kicks, using beasties from all sorts of codices and having a dark eldar beastmaster as the warlord (yay 20+ point warlord!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3870946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 While it is true Unbound is easily abused, it's not always the case fortunately. Plus such people will always abuse the rules anyway so if anything it just makes such things easier to spot. Communication is key as ever :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299589-formations-and-the-force-organisations-chart/#findComment-3871015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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