Black Legion Help

[DarkApostleMazadrin]

Hey guys so im planning to do a Black Legiom army and while i want it to be fluffy i also want it to be fairly competitive. im not looking to win tournies but id like to be able to put up a fight. Now i would like to have the army led by Abbadon as hes a major bad ass. Obviously i will run him with something in a land raider.

im also thinking of running 3 5 man vanilla csm squads with a melta gun each in a rhino

Elites i have access to

2 multi melta dreads

11 termies

5 possessed

7 plague marines

The dv chosen somewhere

Fast attack wise i currently own none

Heavy support wise i have

A autocannon havocs squad

A heavy bolter havocs squad

A defiler

3 oblits

 

Can i make something decent out of this

[incinerator950]

Just about everything can be fluffy for BL.

[DarkApostleMazadrin]

Just about everything can be fluffy for BL.

Excellent its one of the things i like about them anything goes

Any suggestion on what unit to put with Abbadon in the land raider

[Dam13n]

4 Terminators or 5-8 Marines (Chosen or Plague Marines, IMO) would be the standard bodyguard if he's going in a Land Raider.

I personally would favour Plague Marines due to their toughness, feel no pain and blight grenades. They also pack poisoned melee attacks as well, which is nice against either low or high toughness enemies.

The advantage of the Terminators is that they can take the Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport thus freeing up a Heavy Support selection.

- - - - -

As far as the rest goes:

2 Multi-melta Helbrutes - I'd advise getting a third and running them as the deep-striking Helbrute Formation or looking at the Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned from Forgeworld, as there are some nice Helbrute variants in there.

11 Terminators - Well 4 could be used as Abaddon's bodyguard, leaving 7. Which would be enough to make 2 units of 3 Terminators with Combi-weapons and Power weapons (if that's how they're armed).

5 Possessed - If you don't intend to have Crimson Slaughter allies I'd put these guys on the shelf. Without the Slaves to the Voices rule (and a Crimson Slaughter Malefic Sorcerer to accompany) they're arguably wasted points.

7 Plague Marines - The other option for Abaddon's Bodyguard. If they are to be used as such then Meltaguns would be the way to go for their 2 special weapon slots, otherwise Plasma Guns would be better. (You'd want the Meltaguns for popping transports so you can then charge the occupants and Abaddon is only a "monster" in melee).

DV Chosen (6 Chosen) - I'm more a fan of Chosen with Special weapons rather than Melee (Power) weapons as I see them more akin to Sternguard than Vanguard in role. So I wouldn't take them as they are in DV, but other people's opinions may differ.

3 units of 5 CSM in Rhinos with Meltaguns - I'd switch to Plasma Guns on these squads as they can't assault out of a Rhino, so fire saturation (more shots) is better than 1 more powerful shot (that will miss more than it should... the well described "curse of the lone meltagun").

Fast Attack - Bikes and Spawn are good investments here. The Heldrake is still good, though not the uber-flyer-of-death that it used to be.

Autocannon Havocs - a good bet and the preferred load-out for Havocs for the last 3 editions of 40k. 4 Autocannons provide a good versatile firebase unit.

Heavy Bolter Havocs - outside of a horde based meta, the Heavy Bolter doesn't really cut it. It's less adaptable than the Autocannon, so less useful. I wouldn't use these guys personally.

Defiler - generally considered to be too expensive and, even then, under-performing. The Vindicator is a better Pie-plate delivery system, while the Maulerfiend is a better Melee Walker. With a Vindicator and a Maulerfiend coming in at ~250pts (as opposed to the 200pts+ you'll spend on the Defiler) it's not too hard to see why my 2 Defilers haven't left my shelf since the 6th edition codex hit.

3 Obliterators - a mainstay of CSM lists for the last decade. Nowadays you'll want the Mark of Nurgle on them for T5.

- - - - -

So you could run (from what you have, and assuming that you can assemble / modify your models):

Abaddon

4 Terminators - Mark of Nurgle, 4 Combi-meltas, 3 Power Axes, 1 Chainfist, in Land Raider with Dirgecaster

7 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma Guns in Rhino

3 Terminators - 3 Combi-plasmas, 3 Power Axes

3 Terminators - 3 Combi-plasmas, 3 Power Axes

10 CSM - 2 Plasma Guns in Rhino

5 CSM - 1 Plasma Gun in Rhino

3 Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle

5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons

Helbrute Formation - 3* Helbrutes with Multi-meltas (gain the Deep Strike special rule thanks to the Formation special rules).

*You'd need 1 more Helbrute for this, though a forgiving opponent might let you use the Defiler as a proxy in the mean time

[DarkApostleMazadrin]

4 Terminators or 5-8 Marines (Chosen or Plague Marines, IMO) would be the standard bodyguard if he's going in a Land Raider.

I personally would favour Plague Marines due to their toughness, feel no pain and blight grenades. They also pack poisoned melee attacks as well, which is nice against either low or high toughness enemies.

The advantage of the Terminators is that they can take the Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport thus freeing up a Heavy Support selection.

- - - - -

As far as the rest goes:

2 Multi-melta Helbrutes - I'd advise getting a third and running them as the deep-striking Helbrute Formation or looking at the Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned from Forgeworld, as there are some nice Helbrute variants in there.

11 Terminators - Well 4 could be used as Abaddon's bodyguard, leaving 7. Which would be enough to make 2 units of 3 Terminators with Combi-weapons and Power weapons (if that's how they're armed).

5 Possessed - If you don't intend to have Crimson Slaughter allies I'd put these guys on the shelf. Without the Slaves to the Voices rule (and a Crimson Slaughter Malefic Sorcerer to accompany) they're arguably wasted points.

7 Plague Marines - The other option for Abaddon's Bodyguard. If they are to be used as such then Meltaguns would be the way to go for their 2 special weapon slots, otherwise Plasma Guns would be better. (You'd want the Meltaguns for popping transports so you can then charge the occupants and Abaddon is only a "monster" in melee).

DV Chosen (6 Chosen) - I'm more a fan of Chosen with Special weapons rather than Melee (Power) weapons as I see them more akin to Sternguard than Vanguard in role. So I wouldn't take them as they are in DV, but other people's opinions may differ.

3 units of 5 CSM in Rhinos with Meltaguns - I'd switch to Plasma Guns on these squads as they can't assault out of a Rhino, so fire saturation (more shots) is better than 1 more powerful shot (that will miss more than it should... the well described "curse of the lone meltagun").

Fast Attack - Bikes and Spawn are good investments here. The Heldrake is still good, though not the uber-flyer-of-death that it used to be.

Autocannon Havocs - a good bet and the preferred load-out for Havocs for the last 3 editions of 40k. 4 Autocannons provide a good versatile firebase unit.

Heavy Bolter Havocs - outside of a horde based meta, the Heavy Bolter doesn't really cut it. It's less adaptable than the Autocannon, so less useful. I wouldn't use these guys personally.

Defiler - generally considered to be too expensive and, even then, under-performing. The Vindicator is a better Pie-plate delivery system, while the Maulerfiend is a better Melee Walker. With a Vindicator and a Maulerfiend coming in at ~250pts (as opposed to the 200pts+ you'll spend on the Defiler) it's not too hard to see why my 2 Defilers haven't left my shelf since the 6th edition codex hit.

3 Obliterators - a mainstay of CSM lists for the last decade. Nowadays you'll want the Mark of Nurgle on them for T5.

- - - - -

So you could run (from what you have, and assuming that you can assemble / modify your models):

Abaddon

4 Terminators - Mark of Nurgle, 4 Combi-meltas, 3 Power Axes, 1 Chainfist, in Land Raider with Dirgecaster

7 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma Guns in Rhino

3 Terminators - 3 Combi-plasmas, 3 Power Axes

3 Terminators - 3 Combi-plasmas, 3 Power Axes

10 CSM - 2 Plasma Guns in Rhino

5 CSM - 1 Plasma Gun in Rhino

3 Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle

5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons

Helbrute Formation - 3* Helbrutes with Multi-meltas (gain the Deep Strike special rule thanks to the Formation special rules).

*You'd need 1 more Helbrute for this, though a forgiving opponent might let you use the Defiler as a proxy in the mean time

Thanks for that i might be having a 2k game on wednesday so im thinking of going unbound for the first time

[Sception]

Are you using the supplement, or the core book?

 

Abaddon typically goes to battle with his elite terminator guard, and favors teleportation.  Unfortunately a large deep striking chaos terminator unit with abbadon is an awful lot of points to commit to an awful risky mechanic.

 

That's not the only way he's been described as fighting, though.  I can think of at least one instance where he went to battle leading some berzerkers from a land raider, for instance.

 

If you want to do the traditional terminator retinue approach, then consider a kharybdis from FW's recent book.  Sure, it's hideously overpriced, but honestly points efficiency went out the window when you selected abbadon to lead your army, and there will be games that you win purely on the basis of deploying Abaddon plus a warpsmith (so the damn thing won't eat abaddon) and eight terminators (with combi plas, mostly axes, maybe a couple fists, maybe a mark of something other than slaanesh) exactly where you want them at the start of turn one.  Not objective based games, mind, but still.

 

Otherwise, try him in a land raider with 'zerkers or chosen.  Or a spartan with even more zerkers or basic CSMs.  Again, points efficiency out the window, but still.

 

Finally, you might try hoofing him to combat at the head of a cultist or zombie horde.