Daemon Prince, What to do?

[Uprising]

Also there always the simple explanation "Its chaos", work similar to "Its magic" or "plot armor" explanation. 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

@uprising and jeske: both valid points and in games with friends its not a problem, I'm just trying to avoid issues in store with pickup games where people can be funny with counts as.

 

@zardoz: that's a great idea! A bit like the Spawn's cape?

[Forté]

 

You must understand that there isn't realy a good way to run a DP model as a DP without wings

 

Rubbish.

Feel free to elaborate on this comment as it is in no way constructive. Cheers.

 

I'm sure you're aware but this Xenos scum has often been used as a base for a flying DP without wings.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99810110003_TheDeceiverNEW02.jpg

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

I was not, but that is a really cool way of showing he flies!

 

Man I have my work cut out for me now!

[Forté]

All depends how far you want to push yourself really.

[King Jackal]

 

 

You must understand that there isn't realy a good way to run a DP model as a DP without wings

Rubbish.

Feel free to elaborate on this comment as it is in no way constructive. Cheers.

I'm sure you're aware but this Xenos scum has often been used as a base for a flying DP without wings.http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99810110003_TheDeceiverNEW02.jpg

Between re rolling Invulnerable saves, 4+ FNP, Shrouded, Endurance, Invisibility, Iron Arm there are plenty of ways to make wingless princes survivable - just as survivable as a flying prince (Invisibility) and with a potential "6 + D6" reroll + 3" move and run, a foot Slaanesh prince can get into a great position too but with the advantages of not having to go into Glide to assault and not spending an extra 40 points on them.

 

At this point the Winged prince has the advantage of Vector strike sure, but also the disadvantage of grounding tests.

[Forté]

^^^^^ Nice one King. And a lot of points I'd never thought about too :tu:

[the jeske]

 

You must understand that there isn't realy a good way to run a DP model as a DP without wings

Rubbish.

 

Ok, show me how  t5+5sv dude survives nowadays. You take belfegor to cast invisibility on him ? Or maybe keep him out of LoS the whole game?

 

So there was a page 2. didn't notice.

 

First of all you have to get invisibility or biomancy. Second you have to cast it. Now am not saying it will get stoped always, but it can happen .And if that happens he is dead. The csm DP more then the demon one. Then there is the question of speed. The csm DP on foot is super slow. The demon slanesh one can be faster, but 2 things are a problem. First it is whip does not hit as hard to warrent him and second he is tied to some rather craptastic slanesh powers. And if he goes for malefic[nothing wrong with taking that] then the flying DP is better for it as ignoring terrain helps him summon units where he wants.

I dont understand the gliding argument. FMC in 7th shot or cast stuff, they only land late game or if terrain and opposing army are helping them with a charge[and that more or less requies LoS impassible terrain+slow opposing army to happen].

[King Jackal]

 

 

 

 

You must understand that there isn't realy a good way to run a DP model as a DP without wings

 

Rubbish.

Ok, show me how  t5+5sv dude survives nowadays. You take belfegor to cast invisibility on him ? Or maybe keep him out of LoS the whole game?

 

So there was a page 2. didn't notice.

 

First of all you have to get invisibility or biomancy. Second you have to cast it. Now am not saying it will get stoped always, but it can happen .And if that happens he is dead. The csm DP more then the demon one. Then there is the question of speed. The csm DP on foot is super slow. The demon slanesh one can be faster, but 2 things are a problem. First it is whip does not hit as hard to warrent him and second he is tied to some rather craptastic slanesh powers. And if he goes for malefic[nothing wrong with taking that] then the flying DP is better for it as ignoring terrain helps him summon units where he wants.

I dont understand the gliding argument. FMC in 7th shot or cast stuff, they only land late game or if terrain and opposing army are helping them with a charge[and that more or less requies LoS impassible terrain+slow opposing army to happen].

Multiple threats, timing and planning, giving juicier targets and enforcing your game plan on your opponent.

 

Let's talk the Daemons codex Slaanesh prince for arguments sake. I will very rarely swap out a Greater Reward for the Lash unless I roll up 'Unbreakable Hide' this leaves a few very useful defensive buffs, best case scenario - 4+ FNP and reroll failed saves. From there you can plan what you need in Psychic Powers, with 3 rolls it's not altogether unlikely you can get Shrouded and/or Invisibility furthermore stranger things have happened then getting Iron Arm or Endurance on top of that. At this stage (granted best case) I have a 3+/5++RR/4+ FNP with a psychic phase to make him even harder to hit. In the Daemon codex you aren't tied to taking a god specific power.

 

While Assault may be the harder way to kill stuff at the moment, I believe it just requires a little bit more finesse and better tactics then charging head long into mass fire power. And no, in 7th you aren't tied to using FMC to cast Malefic, they offer a huge amount of utility beyond that.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

I like your style king jackal. Thanks for your input. I'm not a particularly good player, I just take stuff I like the look of, so people giving me advice like this is really helpful

[King Jackal]

I really hope you have been able to get some useful information out of this topic hijacking!

 

Are you any closer to how you want to build and play Darkness?

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Hi King Jackal, yes it's been just what I wanted. I find it really useful when people give points and counterpoints, so I don't consider it hijacking at all!

 

You make a good case for a Slannesh ground pounder, as Jeske makes a good case for a FMC. I know if I decide to leave the wings at home I have options.

 

Likewise Forte has shown me that I don't have to compromise on how I want my model to look to use the rules I want.

 

I'm currently looking at the soulgrinder body as a base, but nothing solid yet, he won't have wings, but doesn't necessarily mean he won't be flying ;) He will be Khornate though whatever happens

[Forté]

And don't forget it's 40k. Flight could be winged, wingless, or even a huge daemon forged jump pack. Who's to say what happens in the warp (which is also why we can get away with so much crazy modelling too ;) )

[Subtle Discord]

If you feel daunted by the idea of sculpting or appropriating flowing robes to make the DP appear to be flying, consider a small length of acrylic rod strategically placed to lift the model a little off the base. With the right pose it could easily be said the DP simply levitates, teleports, or can jump and leap so effortlessly that they may as well be able to fly. Think Nightcrawler from X-Men, he didn't have wings, but look at how they portrayed his mutation; he could fly/levitate for all intent, when he wanted to.

 

While it's best to try to WYSIWYG as much as possible, if the model is themed and the intent behind it is in good nature, I would not have any problem with it; especially if you try to do something to give a 'counts-as' element. Doing this sort of thing here-and-there with a well build Chaos army gives it real life, variety, and flavor, but it needs to be done sparingly so you don't take it too far.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

After visiting the GW store today I also saw this model which could be a good base:

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99810201008_ScylaAnfingrimmNEW01.jpg