Sammael and Deathwing Knights

[Epimetheus13]

Has anyone paired Sammael with a unit of Deathwing Knights? I was looking at his rules and realized that the Knights could make great use of Sammy's special rules:

 

- Hit & Run for repeated charges and Hammer of Wrath attacks;

- Rapid Maneuvre Warlord trait for that little bit more maneuvreability (can Sammy turbo-boost while the rest of his unit Runs?)

- Scouts for an extra move before the first turn, or Outflank for a nice surprise (although they could just Deep Strike in, so maybe Outflank not as useful)

- And finally, the Knights give a little back to Sammy and bump his T up to 6.

 

Maybe I'm over estimating the benefits, and maybe a Land Raider still offers far better protection AND mobility for the Knights than Sammy for only 50 more points or so...but its an interesting/different way to play them. Has anyone actually tried it?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I like the idea! I wouldnt necessarily would scout or outflank, but after the DWK teleport in its a good idea to join Sammy to the squad... especially because he also helps getting better charge distances.

[Darkangeldentist]

I have tried it and I love it. Deathwing knights are now a common and significant feature of my Ravenwing lists. As Chaplain Lucifer mentions Sammael helps extend their threat range significantly and adds some useful AP 2 attacks to the mix to help against opponents with 2+ saves. (Not a lot generally but it does help.) I tend to Deathwing assault the terminators in turn 1 and join Sammael to them on the second turn, after which they tend to be in range to assault something.

 

Hit and run also adds valuable mobility to the unit as you jump 3D6" from the combat meaning that on average the unit will move 10" as they leave combat. With a move and another charge you could see them travel nearly two feet across the table leaving one combat to join another in a completely different part of the table. It can really catch your opponent off guard and allows for some amazing re-positioning mid game for what would otherwise be quite a plodding unit. It can actually make them more mobile than if they had a transport when hopping from combat to combat.

 

Sammael also becomes quite a bit more survivable by joining the knights. The knights have better saves than Sammael so unless you are trying to maintain unit size against a few hits because you need the numbers and don't trust your dice he can happily let them take the shots for him. 

 

Hit and run is the deal changer for Deathwing knights in my opinion. One of their problems is that against a lot of foes they rely on attrition and number of wounding attacks to get past good armour. So they tend to cause plenty of damage but rarely wipe an opponent out in 1-2 rounds against space marines or terminators. Smite as a one per game ability is not something you want to waste and you may need to hold it back to deal with a particular target. Being able to hit and run means they can charge in and fight it out for two rounds (so the enemy can't shoot them) before jumping out of combat regardless of whether they finished off the foe and rush over to another position, either to charge in again or find something better to smash to pieces.

[Epimetheus13]

I must be missing a good rule! How does Sammy help get better charge distances? Doesn't he charge at 2d6 just like infantry? I don't see anything in his Warlord trait that would help...

[Larhendiel]

I must be missing a good rule! How does Sammy help get better charge distances? Doesn't he charge at 2d6 just like infantry? I don't see anything in his Warlord trait that would help...

But he can move up to 12" on his own

Imagine a situation where Sammy is behind knights in a unit with them, they want to charge but are 15" away from opponent unit, they can move up to 6" so now they are 9" away, thats a hard charge to pull but Sammy can move much more, all he needs is 2" for his back to be close to knights, and Corvex is long. so adding 2" more to stay in formation gives them 7" away from enemy unit, Corvex is additionally 3" long (rounding down) which gives you 4" away from enemy, now the "unlikely charge" becomes quite scary reality to your opponent, then we have pile in moves, you maintain close combat with enemy in your turn and hit and run after your opponents close combat phase which allows you to move, shoot cannon and charge again.

 

I used this before. And it was claimed to be OP formation

[Epimetheus13]

 

 

I must be missing a good rule! How does Sammy help get better charge distances? Doesn't he charge at 2d6 just like infantry? I don't see anything in his Warlord trait that would help...

But he can move up to 12" on his own

Imagine a situation where Sammy is behind knights in a unit with them, they want to charge but are 15" away from opponent unit, they can move up to 6" so now they are 9" away, thats a hard charge to pull but Sammy can move much more, all he needs is 2" for his back to be close to knights, and Corvex is long. so adding 2" more to stay in formation gives them 7" away from enemy unit, Corvex is additionally 3" long (rounding down) which gives you 4" away from enemy, now the "unlikely charge" becomes quite scary reality to your opponent, then we have pile in moves, you maintain close combat with enemy in your turn and hit and run after your opponents close combat phase which allows you to move, shoot cannon and charge again.

 

I used this before. And it was claimed to be OP formation

Wow. Leading from the back can be quite effective. Although I always thought to measure unit coherency from the base rather than the model, I still see how this works.

 

Thanks for explaining! Can't wait to try this out. I have Knights from the DV expansion, all I need is Sammy.

[Isiah]

You measure coherency, range and distances from the bases. Only vehicles or non-based models take range, movement etc measurements from hull.