New Raptors and Grey Knights 1850 List

[Grand Imperator]

Some questions about this build:

 

-Is the Stormtalon enough for anti-air, or am I skimping too much?

 

-Ideally, I would love to pair Lias Issodon with some Sternguard in a Rhino (with some combi-meltas and maybe two combi-flamers). Issodon and the Sternguard get to use special ammo, and the sternguard get some wonderful protection from Issodon’s shrouded. This unit would also get infiltrate (WL ability), stealth, and scout the first round, whereas now Issodon would be attached to the Devastator Centurions with the Divination Librarian (merely using Infiltrate on foot due to Issodon’s Master of Ambush trait, and not getting Scout or Stealth due to being bulky). It would also make sense for Issodon and Sternguard to be shooting at the same thing up to 30” away, as compared to Issodon trying to shoot at the same things the Centurions would be shooting at. Unfortunately, I am not sure what I could cut to accomplish this. Half of my purifiers? The Dev Cents themselves (putting the Librarian with the Terminator Troops? Perhaps this is more of a fluff idea than a good idea crunch-wise?

 

-Are the scouts just empty points? I wonder how much help the Sniper Rifles are when Boltguns with Raptors Chaptor Tactics replicate some of

the benefit of Sniper Rifles while permitting greater flexibility.

 

Note that Lias Issodon has to be the Warlord (who has to come from one’s primary detachment) if he is used. His Master of Ambush Warlord ability is (I daresay) one of his greater strengths (especially for attempting to deliver Purifiers and Centurions), and his ability to possibly kill off something before the game even starts is also awesome. The reserve re-rolls are of course amazing as well.

Primary Detachment: Combined Arms Detachment, C:SM (Raptors Chapter)

 

HQ (1): Lias Issodon (175)

 

Troops (2):

 

Tac Squad x 5 (130)

Combi-Melta, Meltagun, Melta Bombs (do I really want this?), Drop-Pod (will Drop Pod Assault Turn 1 to hopefully pop a vehicle?)

 

Scouts x 5 (65)

Camo Cloaks only (Legendary Marksman from Raptors CT makes sniper rifle upgrade debatable, although possibly useful still)

 

Fast Attack (1):

 

Stormtalon (125)

Skyhammer Missile Launcher

 

Heavy Support (1):

 

Centurion Devasator Squad (260)

Omniscope, 3x Grav-cannon with Grav-amps

--

Allied Detachment: Grey Knights Nemesis Strike Force

 

HQ (1): Librarian (135)

Mastery Level 3 (considering a Storm Bolter and/or a Hammer for 5 points—his staff can be swapped for falchions or a halberd for free).

 

Troops (1):

 

Terminators (195)

Psycannon, Hammer

 

Heavy Support (2):

 

2 x Nemesis Dreadknights (450)

Personal Teleporters, Heavy Incinerators, Heavy Psycannons, Nemesis Greatswords (swapping to Nemesis Daemon Hammers could save 5 points per model)

 

Elites (1):

 

Purifiers x 10 (305)

2 Hammers, Rhino (will be combat squadded—they are this way to enable all 10 to be infiltrated with Issodon’s Master of Ambush WL ability as a single unit)

Total: 1840

Questionable Options (to remove):

Meltabomb (5) on Tac Squad Drop-podding in—worth it? Will they just die after getting off their first round of shooting?

--

Questionable Options to Add:

Adding Sniper Rifles (5) on Scouts?

Adding 2 falchions and a halberd to a Purifier squad (10 points)?

Adding a Stormbolter (or Combi-weapon) to the Librarian? Adding a hammer to the Librarian?

--

Strategy:

Can infiltrate Lias with Dev Cents and the Librarian (Divination), the Purifiers (in Rhino), and both DKs! The Tac Squid Drop Pods in Turn 1 guaranteed, the Scouts infiltrated and scouted somewhere hopefully nice, the Terminators hopefully Deep Strike (Nemesis Strike Force permits Turn 1, have Lias for re-roll, including reroll on Stormtalon), and that pretty much takes care of everyone. DKs, Purifiers in Rhino, Drop Pod Tacs, and Terminators are quite capable of being in the face of stuff. This keeps Lias/Libby and the Cents relatively safe.

[raverrn]

Honestly? I'm not all that impressed. Purifiers in a Rhino are slow and begging to be popped, same for the Grav Cents. MoA helps, but it doesn't help THAT much. Lias is nice in a spot where he can leverage his cover save bonus over a LOT of models. You've got him in a 10-wound squad that's bound to get shot up in just a turn or two. He's much better in something like a Guard blob. 2 BS4 Melta shots isn't enough for a solid chance to pop something, and the unit is just begging to be eaten. The 'talon is fine and the scouts are too, imho.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

-Is the Stormtalon enough for anti-air, or am I skimping too much?

 

 

Stormtalon is Interceptor bait. I'd recommend investing in a Storm Raven, his infinitely cooler big brother (who doesn't even cost that much more). 

-Ideally, I would love to pair Lias Issodon with some Sternguard in a Rhino (with some combi-meltas and maybe two combi-flamers). Issodon and the Sternguard get to use special ammo, and the sternguard get some wonderful protection from Issodon’s shrouded. This unit would also get infiltrate (WL ability), stealth, and scout the first round, whereas now Issodon would be attached to the Devastator Centurions with the Divination Librarian (merely using Infiltrate on foot due to Issodon’s Master of Ambush trait, and not getting Scout or Stealth due to being bulky). It would also make sense for Issodon and Sternguard to be shooting at the same thing up to 30” away, as compared to Issodon trying to shoot at the same things the Centurions would be shooting at. Unfortunately, I am not sure what I could cut to accomplish this. Half of my purifiers? The Dev Cents themselves (putting the Librarian with the Terminator Troops? Perhaps this is more of a fluff idea than a good idea crunch-wise?

 

Sternguard function better with drop pods, as it gets them in rapid-fire range Turn 1 without too much difficulty, and the pod eats Interceptor fire quite well (and blocks LOS to the squad). Rhinos are bad, don't do that. 

 

You could pair Issadon up with some las+missile Centurions behind an Aegis Line. So long as they don't have both Ignore Cover and AP2 (so y'know, all non-Tau matchups), you're hilariously hard to kill. Plus the Aegis Line can mount a Comms Array (and should), to bring in the Knights and Sternguard Turn 1 reliably. 

-Are the scouts just empty points? I wonder how much help the Sniper Rifles are when Boltguns with Raptors Chaptor Tactics replicate some of

the benefit of Sniper Rifles while permitting greater flexibility.

 

36" is safer than 24". Honestly, Scouts are just a tax for all the cooler Marine units Allies want. They sit on objectives and your opponent is wasting their firepower if he shoots them. There are worse Troops taxes in the game. I'd just take snipers and call it a day. Its not like better cover saves will make them last any longer (heavy flamers etc vape them). 

Note that Lias Issodon has to be the Warlord (who has to come from one’s primary detachment) if he is used. His Master of Ambush Warlord ability is (I daresay) one of his greater strengths (especially for attempting to deliver Purifiers and Centurions), and his ability to possibly kill off something before the game even starts is also awesome. The reserve re-rolls are of course amazing as well.

 

I think his re-roll Reserves only applies to units from his detachment, as does his Warlord trait. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure they won't transfer to the Nemesis Strikeforce, unless you mix units (ie attached IC's to the right units in the right combo). 

Tac Squad x 5 (130)

Combi-Melta, Meltagun, Melta Bombs (do I really want this?), Drop-Pod (will Drop Pod Assault Turn 1 to hopefully pop a vehicle?)

 

Throne no. Why isn't this just another cheap Scout tax? Tacs are bad, never do that, not even with Pods. 

Stormtalon (125)

Skyhammer Missile Launcher

 

Delete this waste of space as well. 

Omniscope, 3x Grav-cannon with Grav-amps

 

I'd add another one. That way you can split fire efficiently, two grav cannons apiece is enough to vape most vehicles and infantry, especially with Divination buffs applied from your Libby

HQ (1): Librarian (135)

Mastery Level 3 (considering a Storm Bolter and/or a Hammer for 5 points—his staff can be swapped for falchions or a halberd for free).

 

Nah he doesn't need a storm bolter. Falchions is an option I'm increasingly considering, as I find the stave rarely matters and have 3x S6 AP3 force attacks in melee is better than AP4 meh. 

2 Hammers, Rhino (will be combat squadded—they are this way to enable all 10 to be infiltrated with Issodon’s Master of Ambush WL ability as a single unit)

 

Drop the Rhino. 

 

 

Reworking your list to cut out the badstuff.exe, I'd go with this for 1850

 

HQ:

 

Sneaky Deaky Beaky Man

(175 points)

 

Troops:

 

(2) 5x Scouts w/sniper rifles

(60 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

Sergeant w/omni-scope, grav cannon, missile launcher, 3x Centurions w/grav cannon, missile launcher

(380 points)

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/falchions, Mastery 3

(135 points)

 

Elites:

 

Flame Knight w/sword, 9x Purifiers w/swords

(250 points)

 

Troops:

 

Justicar w/sword, Strike w/incinerator, 3x Strikes w/swords

(115 points)

 

Fast Attack:

 

Storm Raven w/twin assault cannon, twin multi-melta, 4x stormstrikes, locator beacon

(210 points)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(2) Dreadknight w/greatsword, heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator, teleporter

(225 points each)

 

Total: 1835 points

 

15pts for I dunno...a hammer on the Purifiers maybe? 

[Grand Imperator]

This has all been amazing. Thank you for taking the time!

 

As far as Lias Issodon's "Cunning Strategist," it refers to "the army" re-rolling Reserve rolls. "Master of Ambush" in the 7th edition rulebook says, "Your Warlord and three non-vehicle units of your choice have the Infiltrate special rule."

 

As far as I can tell, those two traits are not limited by Detachment. You can compare the wording of these rules with Tigurius's "Gift of Prescience," which only applies to the same detachment.

 

Does the locator beacon on the Stormraven prevent scatter for the Purifiers dropping out, or does that have to happen after the SR is on the board for a turn?

[raverrn]

Does the locator beacon on the Stormraven prevent scatter for the Purifiers dropping out, or does that have to happen after the SR is on the board for a turn?

 

Locator Beacon only works the turn AFTER you arrive on the board, and may or may not work with the Skies of Fury rule. Check your opponent or TO.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

As far as Lias Issodon's "Cunning Strategist," it refers to "the army" re-rolling Reserve rolls. "Master of Ambush" in the 7th edition rulebook says, "Your Warlord and three non-vehicle units of your choice have the Infiltrate special rule."

 

As far as I can tell, those two traits are not limited by Detachment. You can compare the wording of these rules with Tigurius's "Gift of Prescience," which only applies to the same detachment.

 

Cool. Infiltrating Dreadknights are go :)

 

Locator Beacon only works the turn AFTER you arrive on the board, and may or may not work with the Skies of Fury rule. Check your opponent or TO.

 

 

Well you can do it the turn after you arrive, it still works then. But yeah, the locator beacon rules are quite clear, you have to wait a turn to get shot out of the sky first. Because Throne forbid you alpha-strike your opponent. 

[narrativeforgingintensifies]