My first BA Army is formed, advice on its str and weakness

[Helias_Tancred]

Hail Brothers!

 

I finally have my first WH40K army formed, built, and halfway painted. And of course its Blood Angels. I'm totally new to the game (I know the fluff tho) and have yet to play.

 

I'm asking for some veteran feedback on its strengths and weaknesses, and perhaps tactics I should employ? I've got a decent idea on what to do, it leans more assault friendly right now.

 

 

 

1. 10 man tactical squad w/ flamer, missile launcher, sergeant with chainsword, plasma pistol, and melta bomb. Transport is Rhino APC with stormbolter and hunter/killer missile.

 

2. 5 man assault squad w/jump packs, powerfist, sergeant has power sword and plasma pistol.

 

3. Furioso Dreadnought, load-outs are magna grapple, blood talon x2, flamer, melta .... or magna grapple, frag cannon, blood talon, flamer. Transport is drop pod.

 

4. 10 man death company squad w/powerfist x2, infernus pistol, bolt pistol, and the rest are bolters. Captain Tycho (HQ). Chaplain w/crozius and bolt pistol. Transport is Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi melta up top.

 

 

 

To Get List:

 

Christmas- My wife is getting me a Stormraven to go with my army. Advice on what to put in it?

 

5 man assault squad to make my assault squad a full 10 man unit (Priority #1).

 

Was thinking a devastator squad with a razorback w/las cannon as dedicated transport? They would give me some nice ranged and support on the battlefield.

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback all. Can't wait to start fielding my blood angels!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leonaides]

Check what you gave your assault squad-it looks like you gave a trooper a power fist, which you cant do, or you gave your sergeant both the fist and a sword, which you 'can' do i think but not very sensible.

[Helias_Tancred]

My sergeant has a powersword and a plasma pistol. Aye I gave another assault trooper a powerfist. I will remove the fist. So what you're saying is spread the special weaponry around. I get it.

[Brother Dallo]

Something you may or may not be aware of is that the Blood Angels are getting a new codex in December/January. That may change how good models are, and is worth leaving some Christmas money aside for. That said, let's look at what you have currently.

 

I'm not a huge fan of plasma pistols, they are expensive, short ranged and can kill the model holding them. Otherwise the tactical squad is fine. I don't normally go for hunter killers, but they're alright.

 

Like what has already been said, the assault squad is illegal. I'd suggest adding a special weapon ( or two for the full squad). Power sword is fine.

 

Nothing wrong with a furioso in a pod.

 

Your death company are expensive, ridiculously expensive. I'd worry about putting that many eggs in one basket, but at the same time, I'm sure it's very satisfying to get off a charge with the full unit. You risk over killing the unit you charged though. Ideally you want your combats to finish in the opponent's turn, so they can't shoot the snot out of your expensive unit.

 

I've heard good things about the storm raven. I'd avoid the plasma cannons as they can't shoot fliers. Apart from that, take the meltas over the heavy bolters, and choose either las or assault cannons. Both work well.

 

Devestators in a razorback aren't a bad shout, but are unlikely to spend any time in said tank, as any turns they spend in it/ disembarking are turns they can't shoot, which is bad. In terms of how to arm them, hold off till the new costs are available, as they may fluctuate. Regardless, you generally want to have a homogeneous weapons load out, which isn't possible with one box, so you may need to scrounge up some heavy weapons from somewhere.

 

Hope this has been of use to you.

 

Dallo

[ElectricPaladin]

 

1. 10 man tactical squad w/ flamer, missile launcher, sergeant with chainsword, plasma pistol, and melta bomb. Transport is Rhino APC with stormbolter and hunter/killer missile.

 

2. 5 man assault squad w/jump packs, powerfist, sergeant has power sword and plasma pistol.

 

3. Furioso Dreadnought, load-outs are magna grapple, blood talon x2, flamer, melta .... or magna grapple, frag cannon, blood talon, flamer. Transport is drop pod.

 

4. 10 man death company squad w/powerfist x2, infernus pistol, bolt pistol, and the rest are bolters. Captain Tycho (HQ). Chaplain w/crozius and bolt pistol. Transport is Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi melta up top.

 

 

 

To Get List:

 

Christmas- My wife is getting me a Stormraven to go with my army. Advice on what to put in it?

 

5 man assault squad to make my assault squad a full 10 man unit (Priority #1).

 

Was thinking a devastator squad with a razorback w/las cannon as dedicated transport? They would give me some nice ranged and support on the battlefield.

 

Thanks for the feedback all. Can't wait to start fielding my blood angels!

 

Problem: ordinary assault marines cannot take power fists. Only the sergeant can. Your squad is illegal. If your models are painted, you might want to have your power fist assault marine as an alternate sergeant and get a spare marine from eBay (single figures aren't too expensive) to replace him.

 

I agree that your death company is obscenely big. Death company marines don't need that much stuff to be effective - their basic statline is plenty! I'd say an axe and/or a fist is good, because those weapons can really shine on models who aren't characters and thus can't be called out in a challenge. The hard lesson of any Space Marine codex is that "boys before toys" is more than just a rhyming adage, it's a way of life. The biggest advantage of any Space Marine army is the statline of your basic bolter brother. Start with a core of many power armored bodies and build up from there. Death company is great, but they are already so expensive that rather than trying to kit them out to be able to kill anything, just aim them at something they can excel at killing (ie. anything with wounds) and diversify your list to deal with other threats.

 

Additionally, I'd prioritize getting a librarian. Not only are librarians a lot of fun, they are likely to get more fun, since a confirmed rumor of the new 'dex is that Blood Angels are getting their own deck of psychic powers.

[Quixus]

My sergeant has a powersword and a plasma pistol. Aye I gave another assault trooper a powerfist. I will remove the fist. So what you're saying is spread the special weaponry around. I get it.

It is a lot of points invested in a single wound model (Sgt), but if you really want S8, I1 or S4, I4 attacks, get a power fist and a lightning claw. That way you get an extra attack for having two specialist weapons and get shred on the S4, I4 attacks. It costs the same as a power fist and a power sword.

 

 

Devestators in a razorback aren't a bad shout, but are unlikely to spend any time in said tank, as any turns they spend in it/ disembarking are turns they can't shoot, which is bad.

While I agree putting the devastators in the razorback is not a good idea, it is not quite that bad. Only template and blast weapons (frag missile, plasma cannon) cannot be shot. All other weapons can still still fire snap shots.

[Helias_Tancred]

I tore off some arms. Luckily they were only primed :) I changed my assault marine sergeant to a chainsword and plasma pistol. The regular assault marine that had the powerfist is going to be the melta guy.

 

5 Assault marines (chainsword and bolt pistol) w/ melta gun, sergeant with chainsword and plasma pistol

 

I believe that is legal.

[ElectricPaladin]

I tore off some arms. Luckily they were only primed I changed my assault marine sergeant to a chainsword and plasma pistol. The regular assault marine that had the powerfist is going to be the melta guy.

5 Assault marines (chainsword and bolt pistol) w/ melta gun, sergeant with chainsword and plasma pistol

I believe that is legal.

Yes, much better.

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm full of newbie questions .... what advantages does the plasma pistol, or plasma weapons in general give space marines? Better armor penetration? Useful against armored vehicles, dreadnoughts, and terminators?

 

I know from the WH40K lore and fluff that a number of famous individuals preferred to carry the plasma pistol.

 

Thanks.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm full of newbie questions .... what advantages does the plasma pistol, or plasma weapons in general give space marines? Better armor penetration? Useful against armored vehicles, dreadnoughts, and terminators?

 

I know from the WH40K lore and fluff that a number of famous individuals preferred to carry the plasma pistol.

 

Thanks.

 

It's Strength 7 AP 2, rather than Strength 4 AP 5. Also, you take an automatic AP - wound if you roll a 1 to-hit, so everyone things you're a manly BAMF. The advantages are pretty obvious.

[Xenith]

I'm full of newbie questions .... what advantages does the plasma pistol, or plasma weapons in general give space marines? Better armor penetration? Useful against armored vehicles, dreadnoughts, and terminators?

All of the above, but at quite a high point cost...for now. The single greatest revelation in 40k would be if GW made plasma pistols 8 or 10 pts in the next codex.

 

Theyre good for softening up hard targets before a charge, but are generally seen as inferior to the melta, which has the same range, better strength and AP (and the melta rule, and S8 instant death), for 5 fewer points than the pistol. It also won't kill you, however doesnt grant extra attacks while using it.

 

Swings and roundabouts. The plasma pistols are indeed overcosted, and the meltas are great for damaging tanks, using your high speed. A plasma on the serge gels well with meltas in the unit.

 

That said, I just put together a 4 plasma pistol death squad of assault marines and they did alright in game, but nothing a melta couldn't do.

 

Edit: Oh yea, and the whole BAMF thing. Nothing screams badass like firing miniature suns at the enemy.

 

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk141/Mechxen/Blood%20Angels/4th%20Co%207th%20Squad/2014-11-20110819_zpsd2a5862b.jpg

[Helias_Tancred]

I never did state my strategy for my army.

 

1. Drop the Furioso right in a strategic spot in the enemy's army- mob of infantry, etc.

2. The DC in the Land Raider Redeemer along with my HQ Tycho and the Padre race to the Furioso to link up and do mega tons of death dealing up close and personal with their favorite venerable brother.

3. The tactical in the rhino seize objectives.

4. My assault squad is used as the open variable. if I need more "ummpff" on the assault I can toss them into the mix, or I can use them as reinforcements for my tactical squad if they are getting hit hard, or I can use them as a surgical strike force say to take out a key individual or weapon system, or to tie an enemy unit up for a turn or two?

 

How does that sound so far? Again my army is primarily built around the assault with my death company, Tycho, and Chaplain along with the Furioso being my "hammer", my main killers.

[Helias_Tancred]

Also how would you use my army against an opponent playing the Tau? My first opponent will be a former student playing his Tau army ;) ... don't let teach get creamed brothers.

[Red-beard]

Melta....add more melta. As a minimum, I'd add a melta gun for every 5 assault marines. 

 

Melta is far far superior to plasma. 1) It doesn't blow up in your face, 2) It rolls two dice for armor penetration when within half range instead of one, 3) Strength 8 instead of strength 7 means more insta-kills and more vehicle pens, and 4) It's AP1 versus AP2.

 

Taking melta on assault marines is a unique BA option. Take advantage of it =).

[Quixus]

At higher point levels where you can expect riptides and other nasties you might want to invest in Dante and a melta honour guard. Jump right in the face of the riptide and melta it to death. If that does not work, charge, run away and repeat step 1.

 

Fingers crossed that Dante won't have an unwieldy close combat weapon in the new codex.

 

Also get into close combat ASAP and gut the blue fish.

[Helias_Tancred]

Melta....add more melta. As a minimum, I'd add a melta gun for every 5 assault marines. 

 

Melta is far far superior to plasma. 1) It doesn't blow up in your face, 2) It rolls two dice for armor penetration when within half range instead of one, 3) Strength 8 instead of strength 7 means more insta-kills and more vehicle pens, and 4) It's AP1 versus AP2.

 

Taking melta on assault marines is a unique BA option. Take advantage of it =).

 

Yep, my fifth assault marine had both his arms removed, bye bye powerfist and bolt pistol, and hello Melta gun!

[SonOfThunder]

If you're getting a stormraven, a DC dread could be something to put inside.

[Quixus]

Yep, my fifth assault marine had both his arms removed, bye bye powerfist and bolt pistol, and hello Melta gun!

You might want to add magnets. Who knows maybe later you wll want flamers or something else. 3 mm * 1 mm work well for the arms.

[SonOfThunder]

Magnets add an extra layer of work and planning, but they later save you hours of painting back-up models, or tearing models apart. Totally worth it. I normally use 2mm x 1mm on stumps instead of whole arms, as that way I only have to repaint the guns themselves. It's less flexible though...my marines can double as tac/assault/biker (since the "bikes" are cold ones, handling them with the knees doesn't look that bad :D ), but don't ask them to carry a heavy bolter :)

 

I normally use 3mm for backpacks and torsos, and I reckon they'd be the best size for arms as well.

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't bother magnetizing infantry anymore. EBay makes it too easy for me to just paint up an alternate, and it's not like I don't enjoy painting. On something as small as infantry, I can't ever seem to get the magnets to work such that the limbs don't pivot constantly, which ruins the visual for me. If you have the patience and the skill to make it look good, more power to you, but I find it's actually just more time effective to make extra models.

[SonOfThunder]

I hate painting, I guess that's why I love magnets :D Most of the time magnet less would've looked better than with magnet, but for me the versatility compensates. I love all the cutting and drilling and gluing and positioning one time and again and again, but when it comes to the painting, I can take months to complete a miniature...base coat, wait one month. Apply one color, wait one month, wash it, wait one month...you get it :)

 

Back to the thread, I started running a single furioso in a pod and it underperformed consistently. Recently I've been running 2 of them and it changes quite a bit!...so getting a second fragioso and a third pod (sternguard?) can be a good option. Then again, the new dex can make fragiosos worthless and sanguinary guard golden (pun intended), so who knows!...just a little patience!

[Kais89]

Against Tau you're gonna need a lot of things coming in at once if you want to deepstrike/pod. They will probably have interceptor, so anything coming in from reserved will be shot at during your turn. The more things that can come in at once, the better your chances are.

 

I suggest LOTS of flamers. You will eat their infantry alive and throw a bunch of dice at those pesky drones.

 

Other than that, Sternguard in a pod with combi-meltas (maybe grav with new dex) will do wonders against Riptides and Battlesuits.

 

Make use of LOS blocking cover as much as possible.

 

Mephiston is generally always good. Roll biomancy and crush face.

 

Granted, with the new dex coming out soon, it's hard to say what to bring. Just keep in mind Tau have a lot of tricks to keep you outside of assault range.

[Helias_Tancred]

Thanks

If you drop a Furioso into the infantry part of the tau army, what would be more effective for the Furioso's config- two bloodclaws, or bloodclaw and frag cannon? He will have a flamer in both fyi.

I'm really hoping my DC, Tycho, Chaplain, and Furioso can mess up his infantry. He also has a battlesuit and one of those flying vehicles that looks like a flying canoe with small wings and guns.

[Leonaides]

Bloodclaw and frag-cannon, based on the current rules for both weapons. More arrival kills (better shooting) and, if your dread survives to the next turn and is able to charge, less likely that he will munch through the whole tau squad in your turn (thus exposing him to return fire for a second time). Ideally you want your combats to take 2 rounds to resolve - your turn when you charge, and in his turn you finish them off (protecting you from his shooting because you are locked in combat) then you are ready to charge again in your next turn. Though this may change next week...

[Quixus]

Yeah bashing the enemies of man with a young space wolf is always fun.

More seriously though, am I missing something? AFAIK the current blood talon rules are S user (6), AP 3, whereas the Blood Fist rules are S 2*user (10) AP 2. What's the point of using a single blood talon? The extra attacks only kick in if the dreadnought has a pair of blood talons.