Adding to my Knights army

[Sixcyl]

Hey all,

 

I'm hoping to get some advice and opinions for expanding my GK army. At the moment my core army is: 17 terminator models, 10 purifiers, 5 interceptors, one LR redeemer, and a NDK. I also have a techmarine, Crowe, and a dreadnought, but I rarely use them. I just bought a stormraven too which I expect will be part of my core army and replace the LR. Typically I shunt-punch my opponent for a shock-and-awe win. When I fail to DS or GoI, I get mauled by lots of heavy fire.

 

For Christmas I pretty much have 250-300 to spend on my army so I am considering any combination of 3-4 different options.

 

First I can just add to my GK which would include another NDK, Draigo, some PAGK, a rhino, and maybe more terminators. Anything else?

 

Second I can add an Inquisition detachment. I hear Coteaz or a psyker inquisitor in general with plasma servitors is a pretty effective unit. It would also give me access to dedicated Valkyries and cannon fodder units to add man power to my knights.

 

Third I can start a SW army. Compared to GK (my first army) I have a ton of choices and am not sure what a solid build looks like for SW. If I just wanted to ally SW and combine options 1 and 3, I would essentially try to synergize first and add in the much needed long range fire power plus drop pods. Again though, not sure who/what units to pick (other than long fangs and drop pod).

 

Fourth, I can get an imperial knight. I like the Knight errant with the thermal cannon or the paladin.

 

Of course any combination is an option too. I can just spend $100 on GK and $100 on SW and $50 on Inquisition, etc. 

 

My big goals are: long range firepower, help my purifiers get into cleansing flame range, just try new units.

 

What would you guys do and why?

 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm hoping to get some advice and opinions for expanding my GK army. At the moment my core army is: 17 terminator models, 10 purifiers, 5 interceptors, one LR redeemer, and a NDK. I also have a techmarine, Crowe, and a dreadnought, but I rarely use them. I just bought a stormraven too which I expect will be part of my core army and replace the LR. Typically I shunt-punch my opponent for a shock-and-awe win. When I fail to DS or GoI, I get mauled by lots of heavy fire.

 

Yeah definitely swap the LR for the Raven. 

 

First I can just add to my GK which would include another NDK, Draigo, some PAGK, a rhino, and maybe more terminators. Anything else?

 

 

You want 3 more DK's. Draigo is better with Centurions than any of our units, so only get him if you plan on doing that. Rhino is a waste, don't get it. You already have 17 Terminators, you'll never field more than 20 so maybe just get some cheap sprues to make it 20 models. 

Second I can add an Inquisition detachment. I hear Coteaz or a psyker inquisitor in general with plasma servitors is a pretty effective unit. It would also give me access to dedicated Valkyries and cannon fodder units to add man power to my knights.

 

You won't normally have the points. Knights don't need cannon fodder, we need other aggressive Allies. That's why Marines are a good pick, Centurions add heavy firepower and a tough fire magnet to draw attention off your TDA Troops and DK's. It might be worthwhile squeezing in a cheap Inquisitor for some servo-skulls, but I don't find I have the points normally. 

Third I can start a SW army. Compared to GK (my first army) I have a ton of choices and am not sure what a solid build looks like for SW. If I just wanted to ally SW and combine options 1 and 3, I would essentially try to synergize first and add in the much needed long range fire power plus drop pods. Again though, not sure who/what units to pick (other than long fangs and drop pod).

 

TWC and DK's make a powerful tag team. I'd avoid Long Fangs, nothing else will be able to support them, so they're at risk of being picked off or swamped by a fast interception unit. Drop Pods are a nice pickup for Purifiers, as its a cheaper alternative to a Storm Raven. For the Allied Troops Grey Hunters make a great drop pod unit, with either plasma or melta. 

 

Fourth, I can get an imperial knight. I like the Knight errant with the thermal cannon or the paladin.

 

 

Nah Knight-Titans aren't as good with us as they are in other armies like IG. Avoid for now. 

 

 

You have a fair amount of dosh, so I'd look at;

 

- 3x Dreadknights (they're usually between $30 to $50 on eBay or other such sites)

- Terminator box (again usually $30 to $50 depending on source). This will let you have enough models for 2 full squads, plus extras to make Librarians and Grand Masters. 

- Raven (generally go for about $80, depending on where you look) Essential gunboat and transport for Purifiers. Also great for carrying a locator beacon into enemy lines, if you wanna risk a Turn 2 Deepstrike

- Aegis Line ($20 to $40, remember to get the Comms Array and Quad Gun options included), the Comms Array is fast becoming a mandatory choice for us, because almost all Knight armies are Nemesis Strikeforce these days. 

 

That all should come to about your price range of $250 to $300. I'd recommend doing some digging, AliExpress and other bitz sites can also be good sometimes (don't just look on eBay). And for the love of the Throne do not buy from GW direct. They have absurd markup these days. 

 

 

I'd focus on getting a strong Knight core before bringing in Allies. Play us pure against your local opponents, then decide what you are lacking. Sometimes its firepower (in which case pick up Draigo and some Centurions). If its staying power SW might be a good pick (TWC are durable as hell and hit like a freight train in melee). Also consider IG, they bring a lot of things to the table. Inquisition are worth checking out too. 

 

Be aware that Allies generally only work for us above 1850, more comfortably at 2k. It's because our core is so expensive we generally don't have enough leftover for Troops tax and then whatever power unit you're trying to bring in. 

[Rurik the blessed]

Well you could try another NDk for at least. . . then if you wanna try allies, try Tigurius (regular space marine librarian) with some scouts (snipers), for cheap.

 

then i would recommend another box of terminators or some PAGK,. you need some cheap troops.

 

Rhinos are not that bad specially with purifiers, that will need some movement protection.

[Sixcyl]

I like the idea of centurions and Draigo. How do I ally that? Don't I need an HQ and troops?

 

I think a rhino would be nice because I use my LR to move up a combat squadded purifier unit, I call it the fire truck haha. But 240 points to help run purifiers up the field is a bit much. The Raven seems more sensible than the LR, I should get that in a week (nabbed it for $40).

 

I like the idea of the ADL. I use comms now for 20 points. I think the only drawback is units have to hang back there no? Or can the gun go on autopilot?

 

You're right about the allies being best for 1850 or higher. I typically play 1500, sometimes up to 2000 so a better core army is best.

 

So this is my list for now:

2 NDK-$80-100

5 man terminator squad- $30-$40

Rhino- $25-30

PAGK (box of 10)? -$40-50

Centurions?- $60

Draigo?- $15-30

 

Total:   $145-170 (without PAGK, draigo, and centurions)

            $250-300 (including PAGK, draigo, and centurions)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Rhinos are not that bad specially with purifiers, that will need some movement protection.

 

Rhinos are Turn 1 First Blood. Ravens and Pods are better in every measurable way. When Hull Points get taken behind the shed and shot, I'll consider meching our units again. Till that day, AV11 deathtraps can gather dust on the shelf. 

 

I like the idea of centurions and Draigo. How do I ally that? Don't I need an HQ and troops?

 

 

Cheap Terminator Librarian and some Scouts. It's not that much. 

I think a rhino would be nice because I use my LR to move up a combat squadded purifier unit, I call it the fire truck haha. But 240 points to help run purifiers up the field is a bit much. The Raven seems more sensible than the LR, I should get that in a week (nabbed it for $40).

 

Again, please don't get a Rhino. Its a waste of money and points. You are aware Combat Squads have changed right? You can Combat Squad, but still embark both onto the same transport. So, if they were in a Raven or Pod, when they hop out you have two seperate 5-man squads (and also two instances of 'Cleansing Flame', which is pretty hilarious). 

I like the idea of the ADL. I use comms now for 20 points. I think the only drawback is units have to hang back there no? Or can the gun go on autopilot?

 

That's why you take teleporters on your DK. Deploy them with 3" of the Comms Array, then when you roll for Reserves (remember, its done before Movement begins), you can re-roll. In the Movement phase, Shunt the DK's up to support your Terminators. 

Rhino- $25-30

PAGK (box of 10)? -$40-50

 

Don't get these. You already have 15x PA models, that's heaps. You need a box of Termies, that's all the infantry you'll ever need for most lists, even pure Knights. 

Centurions?- $60

Draigo?- $15-30

 

Optional. If you wanna get them now, cool beans. 

[Sixcyl]

 

Rhinos are not that bad specially with purifiers, that will need some movement protection.

 

Rhinos are Turn 1 First Blood. Ravens and Pods are better in every measurable way. When Hull Points get taken behind the shed and shot, I'll consider meching our units again. Till that day, AV11 deathtraps can gather dust on the shelf. 

 

I think a rhino would be nice because I use my LR to move up a combat squadded purifier unit, I call it the fire truck haha. But 240 points to help run purifiers up the field is a bit much. The Raven seems more sensible than the LR, I should get that in a week (nabbed it for $40).

 

Again, please don't get a Rhino. Its a waste of money and points. You are aware Combat Squads have changed right? You can Combat Squad, but still embark both onto the same transport. So, if they were in a Raven or Pod, when they hop out you have two seperate 5-man squads (and also two instances of 'Cleansing Flame', which is pretty hilarious). 

I like the idea of the ADL. I use comms now for 20 points. I think the only drawback is units have to hang back there no? Or can the gun go on autopilot?

 

 

 

 

No I know rhinos are not on the same league at all but for lower point games, I lack the ability to transport purifiers and I can't get pods without an ally, though a cheap SM HQ, scouts, and drop pod seems viable. But even that has got to be nearing 150 points. What I typically do in lower point games is GoI them if I can with a sanctic libby. But even then that's only 5 of the my 10, the other 5 have to hoof it.

 

I know combat squads can ride in the same vehicle, that's why my reedeemer is called the fire truck. I move up, disembark two 5 man squads, double cleansing flame, and follow-up with the AP3 flamethrower and double incinerators from the purifiers. And yes, it is hilariously destructive.  Off topic-ish, can a 10 man combat squadded unit benefit from GoI of one libby the way they can go into one vehicle? No right?

 

And yes that's what I do now with the comms relay. I have my purifiers or interceptors hang by the comms and then the interceptors shunt up or the purifers embark into the LR. After turn 1 I generally don't care if I hold the comms. I guess I worry about the ADL because of the quad gun, lol. It won't get taken from me will it?

[Sixcyl]

Oh, forgot to mention. How about a vindicaire? He could potentially sit behind an ADL right?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No I know rhinos are not on the same league at all but for lower point games, I lack the ability to transport purifiers and I can't get pods without an ally, though a cheap SM HQ, scouts, and drop pod seems viable. But even that has got to be nearing 150 points. What I typically do in lower point games is GoI them if I can with a sanctic libby. But even then that's only 5 of the my 10, the other 5 have to hoof it.

 

In lower point games I'm consider not taking them. Terminator core with DK backup is pretty hard to deal with at 1000-1500, most people don't have the firepower and I highly doubt they'll outclass you in melee combat. 

I know combat squads can ride in the same vehicle, that's why my reedeemer is called the fire truck. I move up, disembark two 5 man squads, double cleansing flame, and follow-up with the AP3 flamethrower and double incinerators from the purifiers. And yes, it is hilariously destructive.  Off topic-ish, can a 10 man combat squadded unit benefit from GoI of one libby the way they can go into one vehicle? No right?

 

No, because they're entirely different things. 'Gate' is a blessing targeting the psyker and his unit. When Combat Squadded each combat squad is a seperate unit from that point onwards, which is at deployment (or when they arrive from Reserve). So, only one combat squad would get 'Gated', the other would have to walk. Instead of all that bleh, you could just get them a Raven or pod them with Allies. 'Gate' is better for delivering things like Centurions. 

And yes that's what I do now with the comms relay. I have my purifiers or interceptors hang by the comms and then the interceptors shunt up or the purifers embark into the LR. After turn 1 I generally don't care if I hold the comms. I guess I worry about the ADL because of the quad gun, lol. It won't get taken from me will it?

 

Well put the Purifiers in Reserve in a Raven from now on. Interceptors and DK's are both good candidates to stand near the Comms Array. Remember, you only need it for Turn 1, after that it won't matter (its very unlikely the enemy will bother trying to cap it). 

 

Quad guns are different, they do have to be camped as they can be used by the enemy to irritating effect. But you can't have a Comms Array and a Quad Gun on an Aegis Line, the fortification can only take one upgrade. I usually go Comms, its much more useful. 

Oh, forgot to mention. How about a vindicaire? He could potentially sit behind an ADL right?

 

Yeah, but he's 145 for a dude that splats instantly to S8+. I like the new version of him a lot (72" is absurdly good), but I don't think he's needed. Try out a Culexus instead. For extra depravity, put the Culexus in your Raven. When he arrives on Turn 2 and leaps out, you can charge an enemy unit straight away and get stuck in bashing face. 

[Brom MKIV]

Unfortunately he can't assault from reserve.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Unfortunately he can't assault from reserve. 

 

 

Ah hell, forgot about that rule. GW really hate Reserve armies don't they? 

[Everon]

Nopes. They hate assault armies

[Brom MKIV]

 

Unfortunately he can't assault from reserve.

 

Ah hell, forgot about that rule. GW really hate Reserve armies don't they?

Don't worry I let my last space wolf opponent assault me from a reserved stormwolf turn 2! After the game was long over I was reflecting and went hey wait golly gee?! No wonder they were so good.. I won anyway so no biggy.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's just so frustratingly stupid. Like, we get it GW, shooting is king! But no charge from Reserve kills every Outflank melee unit instantly (as they have to either cower in cover or doodle around getting shot at least once, maybe twice if the enemy have Interceptor). It also screws up Ravens and open-topped transports zipping in from Reserve. Oh, and Webway Portal builds for DE. 

 

That's what really annoys me. They give Interceptor away like candy to the shooty armies, and yet they are still worried about melee EVER happening...so no charging until Timmy has his entire army blast you for a turn. Yay, game balance!

[SonofTitan117]

I very much agree that there is a major misconception of balance in having shooting armies with the ability to intercept when those armies which rely on deep striking remain unable to assault in the turn that they arrive.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I very much agree that there is a major misconception of balance in having shooting armies with the ability to intercept when those armies which rely on deep striking remain unable to assault in the turn that they arrive.

 

Even better though, is that the turn after, when you finally can move+shoot+charge them, they get Overwatch. Which against Tau means they Supporting Fire markerlights into you, then start boosting BS on other units doing Supporting Fire. 

 

I have literally shunted into a Tau gunline Turn 1, and eaten FOUR rounds of shooting to pay the admission price to enter melee combat. It's incredibly stupid. The only ones to make it into melee were the DK's (who promptly smoked both Riptides, thank the Emperor for 'Force'), my Interceptors were gunned down like dogs. My DK's were both on 2 wounds when they entered combat though. 

[Sixcyl]

Thanks for the input everyone.

So far I bought two more NDK for a total of 3 now, and 5 termies so I can round off two 10-man squads and two to be libbies or GM or what have you. I also got a rhino, I tend to use my friend's and it's typically helpful. At 35 points, it's meant to get your guys up the field then die.

 

For now I think I'm pretty set.

 

 

I have less of a bad time shunting after being super aggressive about it. I used to shunt/DS/GoI into a place for me to benefit from cover to setup for an assault next turn but it rarely worked. Now I just get in my opponent's face and fire on the biggest threats. So turn one is typically a 5 man termy squad, 10 man termy squad, NDK with flamer and psycannon, interceptors with flamer, and two libbies. One takes the liber and has a 2/3 to take GoI (5/6 if I roll a 6 on the warlord table) which I use to gate purifiers up as well. So In turn one there is a lots of fire: 1 heavy incinerator, 3 incinerators, 1 heavy psycannon, 3 psycannons, 1-2 cleansing flames, lots and lots of storm bolter fire. All that said, I would love to be able to DS and assault.

[Adeptus]

God, assault after deep striking would be so amazing. And considering the risks of deep striking that close to the enemy, the fact you can't consolidate into combat, your target still gets overwatch and you still have random charge distances, it would hardly break the game.

[raverrn]

God, assault after deep striking would be so amazing. And considering the risks of deep striking that close to the enemy, the fact you can't consolidate into combat, your target still gets overwatch and you still have random charge distances, it would hardly break the game.

 

I can't agree with you there. There are PLENTY of ways to get reliable deep strikes, and the ability to hit combat and be immune to shooting immediately would just be too good.

 

Now, I could see assaulting out of Reserves.

[Sixcyl]

Wasn't this the case in 5e where grey knights were regarded as being quite OP?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I can't agree with you there. There are PLENTY of ways to get reliable deep strikes, and the ability to hit combat and be immune to shooting immediately would just be too good.

 

Now, I could see assaulting out of Reserves.

 

Agreed. Deepstrike charges are broken as hell in Planetstrike, that's why no one plays it (along with it being a dead game type as well...basically spam bunkers and laff, or eat endless Turn 1 free bombardments that vape half your army). 

 

Charging from Reserve would be a simple deletion of a line in the stupid 'Reserve' rules. It would instantly make Genestealers and all sorts of Outflankers viable again. It would also mean you could charge out a Raven the turn you arrive in it. 

 

Given Overwatch and le randumb charge range are in the game now, its not even that powerful. And you still eat Interceptor as well. 

 

Wasn't this the case in 5e where grey knights were regarded as being quite OP?

 

 

Nope. At no point in mainstream 40k has it been possible to charge the turn you land off Deepstrike. Only in Planetstrike, which like Apoc isn't really part of normal 40k (its the absolute casual tier end of the spectrum, no tourney supports it beyond narrative missions). 

 

Knights were considered overpowered for a variety of retarded reasons. This forum almost went into meltdown, and Warseer, DakkaDakka, Bols etc all went supernova mongoloid over our 5th edition codex release. Oh, let me count the ways;

 

- Draigo

- Draigo

- Draigo

- Draigo

- Paladinstar (defeated by Demolisher cannon and any other S8+ shooting, slow...even at its height it was never as obnoxious as Nob Bikers....)

- Dreadknights

- Crowe (his sword to be precise)

- People who didn't know how to kill AV11 transports or PA models, because their lists and mental capacity were dog vomit

 

You still encounter people from that fabled era, even here on the B&C. Thankfully they usually keep to themselves (there is a thread currently active which is containment for exactly that reason). I still live in the vain hope that such irrational hatred will fade away (especially as our 7th edition incarnation gets vaped by most tourney lists except Daemons). 

[raverrn]

Paladinstar was very, very strong to be fair, and S8 did nothing with Draigo to take it and laugh.

 

But that was one codex and two editions ago. It's like if someone was yelling nowadays about how Eldar are broken because Fire Prisms can pop-up attack.

[Adeptus]

Don't forget the psyflemen spam!

[raverrn]

Don't forget the psyflemen spam!

Psyflemen were only good because everyone and their mother had Las-plas Razorbacks.