SonofTitan117 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hey guys, I have plenty of GK's now. About 6k's worth, so I was wondering what you all think would be the best Imperial Knight to run with Grey Knights? Any input is appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The Melta one. Cheaper and can deal with those 2+ saves that terminators struggle with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3876963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 That is the one I was leaning towards, that or an Acheron. I like the Acheron but with it being more points and having to be the LOW selection I wasn't sure about it. Do you have any thoughts on it raverrn? I love that FW kit for sure though. edit: inane autocorrect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3876972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It's not bad at all, but the Melta one (Paladin?) covers two big GK weaknesses in cracking armor and mowing through 2+ saves, AND as a GW model is considered more acceptable by some opponents, there's really no contest I feel. The Acheron, for anyone who hasn't seen: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/A/Acheron.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I know it's probably lacking synergy with Grey Knight strengths/weaknesses, but the Castigator is just dead sexy. Enormous twin-linked rotary multi-barrel bolter cannon? Check. Gigantic belt feed? Check. Huge energy sword drill thing? Check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Acheron seems a very good option... his run movment of 3D6 makes him very good. specially if you play with some NDK along with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I know it's probably lacking synergy with Grey Knight strengths/weaknesses, but the Castigator is just dead sexy. Enormous twin-linked rotary multi-barrel bolter cannon? Check. Gigantic belt feed? Check. Huge energy sword drill thing? Check. Also just bad in general. Which sucks, because it IS really good looking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I got 5 knights. I have yet to use acheron or castigator since just got them but the errant works with us VERY well. I should be able to test the other two soon and ill let you know how well they work with us Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I went ahead and got a Knight Errant but I am definitely looking forward to hear how the Acheron and Castigator do in battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'd go with the Errant first, Castigator second, and Acheron third, in that priority. After the Acheron, it's the Paladin, then Lancer. Never never never take a Magaera wih its current rules. A good GK/IK list is your standard NSF with 2 NDK supporting 1 Knight Errant. The Errant acts as a Super-DK (12" move, 6 wounds, effectively T8, etc.). It even looks the part. /wink SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Don't ever take a Castigator, it's just aggressively bad. The Bolt Cannon going to cause, on average, less hits than a Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, at a lower strength and at a lower range - the only real upside is it can shoot airplanes and get a hit or two maybe? And then on top of that it's the only Knight without a Destroyer melee weapon, wohoo. Sure, it can cause some hits on a big blob, I guess? If only Knights had some sort of blast-based stomp-like attack to cover that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think the Castigator has a place in the Questoris army list (because you can give it Skyfire or other cool abilities, depending on Force Org slot and the rank you choose). As an Ally though, it's severely lacking. I'd actually be considering the Styrix for us. He's stupidly hard to kill, and the volkite gun he has is a 5-shot krak launcher with Deflagrate. It's better anti-tank than the melta cannon on the Errant because it deals with strong cover saves and high HP targets well (by just blasting through it with sheer shots), and it reks infantry and MC's very efficiently (extra hits for every unsaved wound you inflict). Put 'Prescience' on him and watch your opponents face. I wouldn't upgrade his reaper to the siege drill thingy, its very expensive and the rad-flamer is bleh (if it was a twin-linked irradiation engine, it would be cool). The issue with the Errant is he's much more at risk of getting melta'd (due to his aggression), and his melta cannon still only one-shots an enemy vehicle on a 5. Seeing as you only get one shot, its not great odds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3877988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Question for RD, where do you see that the castigator can take special abilities like skyfire? Ive looked over his pdf rules from fw site and found nothing of the sort Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 I figure that the Knight Errant is a good place to start and that any additional knights will be situational to the enemy being faced. That is an interesting point that you bring up RD about the Styrix. I do not have access to the rules of that particular knight. I definitely know that despite its good looks the Castigator would not do much to shore up the weaknesses in our armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Question for RD, where do you see that the castigator can take special abilities like skyfire? Ive looked over his pdf rules from fw site and found nothing of the sort It's in the Questoris Knight List in HH IV: Conquest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah, every Knight-Titan player should get Conquest ASAP. It massively expands the lore, and rules (along with new chassis and weaponry). It's a treasure trove of new stuff just waiting to be tested and experimented with. None of it is especially overpowered either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Interesting. I thought that book was all for 30k onlt. Hmm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 This is becoming a great guide to GK Knights-Titans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 RD, the Castigator's melee special rules let's it hit all models in CC with it, causing unsaved wounds to double. That's an S10 AP2 melee AoE that crits for double damage, making the Castigator a must for Anti-Horde. It's only down side is its lack of a secondary range weapon. As to the Errant vs Paladin debate, the Errants brings the AP1 that GK lack, and it brings it as a S9 large blast. It's not there just to pop Rhines, it's there to pop units that ignore Psycannons. Yes, two S8 AP3 Ordnance large blasts are better at popping 3+ and worse infantry as well as light vehicles, but that's not what GK needs more of. GK needs an AP1 blast that drops close enough to be useful. My opinion. As to the Styrix, it's definitely a Badass. Unfortunately, it's 30k only, and GK are 40k. I'm still going to convert one, though. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3878477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 RD, the Castigator's melee special rules let's it hit all models in CC with it, causing unsaved wounds to double. That's an S10 AP2 melee AoE that crits for double damage, making the Castigator a must for Anti-Horde. It's only down side is its lack of a secondary range weapon. But you already have the special stomp blast all Knight-Titans have. And GK do not need anti-infantry help. We need ranged anti-tank, and some Skyfire would be nice too. I think the Castigator has a place in the Questoris list, but not as a standalone Ally with no other buffs. It's just too anti-infantry focused, which is something we need no help with. As to the Errant vs Paladin debate, the Errants brings the AP1 that GK lack, and it brings it as a S9 large blast. It's not there just to pop Rhines, it's there to pop units that ignore Psycannons. Yes, two S8 AP3 Ordnance large blasts are better at popping 3+ and worse infantry as well as light vehicles, but that's not what GK needs more of. GK needs an AP1 blast that drops close enough to be useful. My opinion. The problem is that even with AP1, you need a 5+ to one-shot any target (high AV or otherwise), unless its open-topped or something. You only get one blast, so you need a really good roll. 2/3rds of the time, you'll whiff, and whatever you shot keeps trucking. That's why anti Knight-Titan units take as many meltaguns as possible, to maximise the chances of rolling that 5+. As to the Styrix, it's definitely a Badass. Unfortunately, it's 30k only, and GK are 40k. I'm still going to convert one, though. Outside of competitive games no one cares (and I wouldn't take Knight-Titans as Allies to a tourney, they're the wrong choice). I'm gonna get one eventually for my 30k Mechanicum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Just clarifying, but a 5 up on two dice does not yield too bad of results most of the time. That's the same as saying that a unit of Grey Knights should not assault a MC without Hammers. See what I did there? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Just clarifying, but a 5 up on two dice does not yield too bad of results most of the time. That's the same as saying that a unit of Grey Knights should not assault a MC without Hammers. See what I did there? A 5 on the vehicle damage table, not on the armor penetration roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Just clarifying, but a 5 up on two dice does not yield too bad of results most of the time. That's the same as saying that a unit of Grey Knights should not assault a MC without Hammers. See what I did there? Created a false dichotomy? Don't get me wrong, I think the Errant is scary as hell to most armies. But most mech lists (Eldar, Necron, arguably some Tau builds, IG etc) can weather the one shot it puts out, because they lost 1HP and are maybe immobilised (at worst). That's the problem with 1 shot weapons, the new damage table makes even AP1 a gamble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 This forum never fails to mystify me. AV11 is better than AV14, AP3 is better than AP1, and PA beats TDA. With advance like that, no wonder people lol at us. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299916-imperial-knights/#findComment-3879989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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