Redo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So we are at the dawn of a new Codex and I am really looking forward to it as I never really got into the old codex. Anyway, I keep thinking about Assault Squads and how they need to be tweeked. Many people say they need a new sprue but when I think of the old sprue there are some good options but you cannot really use them. What I mean is that I think to make assault squads more viable they should be allowed to take 4 options (for instance 2 power weapons and two plasma pistols or any similar mix) instead of the current two. This would bring them into line with their Devastator counterparts. I still think that BA and successors could have access to the Melta Gun too without being too overpowered. Similarly other Imperial units have access to multiple weapons such as Imperial Veterans and Sisters Redeemers (I think that is their name). Other marine chapters could also be updated with a FAQ. Also I do not think that they would cut into the Vanguard Veterans' role as the would still have access to Storm Shields and the two attacks. They should not be too overpowered either as they are still just PA marines, 1 attack (base) and the cost will get rather high, rather quick. Just some thoughts, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think you are on the right track. Assault troops need either tons of attacks or hidden power weapons, preferably at costs far below the standard 15/25/30 pts we pay now. 3A on the charge isn't enough without power weapons, you need at least 4-5 like our current DC to actually get wounds through saves and win combats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I realize that it still may not be enough but remember that Jump Assault have HoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I realize that it still may not be enough but remember that Jump Assault have HoW. Only if you move 6" in movement phase which is rare. A few thoughts: +1 Initiative Able to Run and Shoot after deepstriking. Fleet Edit: I think Skyclaws are designed fairly well. 150 for 10. 40 Attacks on the charge 30 when being charged, but lower BS/WS. I'd much rather have Skyclaws than BA or Vanilla assault marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I realize that it still may not be enough but remember that Jump Assault have HoW.Only if they do not use their jump packs in the movement phase, except raven guard. 6"+ 2d6" (rerolling) is a pretty small threat radius. Bolter marines have a threat radius of 18" for double tapping and a maximum range of 30". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I would agree, allow more special weapons for a basic ASM squad: -May take up to (2) PWs and/or PFs in a squad (regardless of squad size) -For every 5 models, one squad member may replace his BP with a Flamer, Meltagun, or Plasma Pistol -Sergeant/Vet Sergeant has access to all close combat (PWs, LCs, PFs) and ranged weapons (Plasma Pistol, Combi Weapons) options -Entire Squad may take MBs for +2points/model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The assault marines struggle on two fronts. The first is getting to the enemy unscathed. The trek across the field sees them shot up, which means they need to get in fast and reliably and then into combat. Fleet would be really, really beneficial for them - all the time, not just for the time they move 6" The second is doing real damage when they get there. Maybe MEq vs MEq isnt the best comparison, but when a squad of 10 (no upgrades) at 170points charges a marine squad to inflict 2.5 unsaved wounds...i'm thinking...meh. I think an additional special CCW in the squad is all we need to sort that problem out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverson Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think things are not that bad that they need the option of 4 special weapons, I think it's more of a need to get into combat with more models and as stated fleet would be a good inclusion and automatically getting HoW attacks regardless of weather they used there jump packs. I think we are going to become quite strong in challenges versus other meq if our sargents get access to artificer armour tho I expect it to be a pricy upgrade... 20 points +power sword( probably the best option for the challenge or claw) 15points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovidius Incertus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 A tweak to charge distances, definitely, and JP equipped marines really need to be able to move farther. An extra CCW also would be a plus. I think Deepstrike is a big loser, though. You've got control of your jump pack when you jump out of your T-hawk; steer yourself to the target! Maybe a 1d6 scatter on DS when using the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 That's what our JP marines currently do. I'd rather have the Raven Guard rule, or +1 initiative on the charge. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 despite the model, im not convinced our sergeants will get artificer... would love it if they did though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 A tweak to charge distances, definitely, and JP equipped marines really need to be able to move farther. An extra CCW also would be a plus.The variable charge range is a problem of the last two editions in general. While a greater maximum charge distance would be nice, what they really need is a consistent charge range. What would an extra close combat weapon do? Assault marines already get an extra attack for their pistol (i.e. additional CCW) infantry cannot get more than one extra attack through additional weapons. I think Deepstrike is a big loser, though. You've got control of your jump pack when you jump out of your T-hawk; steer yourself to the target! Maybe a 1d6 scatter on DS when using the pack.Yeah, deep strike has never been good for melee units (except Vanguard Veterans). Less scatter (which BA get already/still) is nice but the problem is that the melee unit cannot charge the turn it deep strikes. So it either spends a turn hiding or uses its often mediocre ranged weapons just to be shot to pieces in the opponent's turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 This reminds me...I hope our veterans didn't get the C:SM treatment. Would be a pity for such a flavourful unit. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 This reminds me...I hope our veterans didn't get the C:SM treatment. Would be a pity for such a flavourful unit. Snorri I am %99 sure they lost their assault via deep strike rule. With all the point reductions, they would be incredibly powerful. Fingers crossed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The only thing better than fleet would be a flat-rate bonus to charge range, even just 1" and maybe stacking with other bonuses. Seriously the amount of times I've rolled a 3 to make a 4" charge is just cruel. Doubt very much we'll get fleet but I'll be happy if I'm wrong. BTW anyone know in which edition DoA was introduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The only thing better than fleet would be a flat-rate bonus to charge range, even just 1" and maybe stacking with other bonuses. Seriously the amount of times I've rolled a 3 to make a 4" charge is just cruel. Doubt very much we'll get fleet but I'll be happy if I'm wrong. BTW anyone know in which edition DoA was introduced? Fifth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think as mentioned above Skyclaws do it best right now. At 15 points a model with 40 attacks on the charge. 2 special weapons With a pack leader upgrade you can get 2 power weapons/fists in there as well as a combi on the pack leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think the fix that's really needed in order to get assault up to par is to dial back ranged weapon profiles, but that's a pipedream. Also, I think chainswords ought to be rending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 And chain axes should be unwieldy, or power axes should lose that rule. I mean, why is one large weight at the end of a stick unwieldy and the other isn't? Just another pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think the op's option of four special melee weapons to match the devs 4 heavy is good. Our just allow them all to purchase them. Not overpowered at all. 10 pts for non characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 That would make Sternguard somewhat pointless. I'd like 2 melee special weapons, but giving them 4 melta would be to strong. For vanilla that would be 125 points for a 4 melta 5man unit, not to crazy alone but with reduced scatter or servo skulls that is close to a 100% melta alpha. I think 7th is already shooty enough, give us more assault :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Another thing that kind of annoys me, is all the special rules. Yes perhaps the JP rules need some tweaking but I just feel that too many special rules for one unit to bring it up to par slow the game down or make it a bit complex. With 4 assault weapons or flamer/PP there are so many builds that one could make with an Assault Squad...I also seem to remember that way back in 2nd there was the option that every assault squad member could take a special weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Close combat weapons, yes. I had a 10man squad, 5 power sword chainsword and 5 power fist chainsword guys. Ahh, the days of parry...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You know what would fix our jump infantry in a pinch? Any model may replace their Close Combat Weapon with a Bolter for free Or take a bolter at +2 points per model. Done. Now we have access to a great multi-purpose unit that can act as a mobile fire base with 2 special weapons and it can do work if push comes to shove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Also makes tactical squads pretty redundant - bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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