[Power/Rune/Frost] Sword vs Axe vs Maul/Staff

[Donkalleone]

First some clarification:

We will assume for this Discussion that the options cost the same (no power vs Frost for example).

For that reason we will leave Fist and TH out, too.(well mostly)

 

Now my opinion

In General and en mass i favor the sword : strike @ iniative and ap3 which ignores most armor saves.

I really like the Maul/Staff because of 2 reasons : +2 Str and concussive hitting @ iniative.

This gives a normal Loadout a Chance fighting/winning against MC and other tougher enemys when they survive the first round.

I dislike the Axe +2Str and Ap2 is nice but I1 is really lackluster if i would play an Axe it would be in a group with multiple swords and a maul even then i would take a fist or TH for the instant death chance etc.

 

If i could only choose one power (etc) weapon it would be the Staff/Maul and in a Group of multiple : several swords and a Maul/staff.

 

Whats your opinion?

[NightHowler]

Kind of depends on what unit is taking the weapon.

 

For my rune priests I usually go with the sword because initiative is best - especially when biomancy could make them AP2

 

For my thunderwolf cavalry I usually go with powerfists on a couple and the rest with no upgrade, so, none of the above?

 

For my terminator pack leaders I usually take an axe and shield since the FAQ.

 

For my special weapon hidden in my grey hunters / bloodclaws, again I usually go powerfist.

 

For my wolf lord I try not to sacrifice their I5 if I can help it, so krakenbone sword, wolf claw, something of that nature.

 

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question, but thought it might help nevertheless.  

 

I usually avoid mauls/staffs because if I'm taking a special weapon I want it to be useful in as many situations as possible so I want at least AP3.  I usually only take an axe if I have a 2+/3++ because its a cheap AP2.  So I guess of the three choices I would go with swords most often?

[rgr_maddog]

As stated above, it depends on who is wielding said weapon.

 

In troop like units I prefer the hidden power axe, as initiative is less of an issue and kills are more likely. I like the + 1 strength and getting by those power armor saves (ap 2 still being a situationally nice bonus).

 

TWC and HQ's are likely going to need a bigger threat range and/or be in smaller units. This makes striking at invite more valuable, but they also get more out of PF's, TH's, and other weapons outside of your topic parameters, than a model with less attacks.

 

Most load outs for terminators are going to depend on what there purpose of the unit is. Same goes for Lone Wolves.

 

Short answer, they are all better than each other, albeit at different roles. It's all METT-T dependent (spare this old vet his acronyms).

[Donkalleone]

@night: It helps and its an opinion. Only with other sources you might find your fault.

I would take a Maul in GH because i think it support the team better than axe/sword (or even fist) cause it can make the enemy concussive.

The Fist is better in TWC without question and like Stated Above in TDA with Multiple PWeapons at least 1 Maul.

Reason Why:

Lets say a MC fights your GH and 4 GH die first round and you manage 2 Wounds (Since Maul wounds T6 on 4+)  one is concussive. Next Round you have 6 Attacks which could kill the enemy before it even can strike back and MC are high Str you could avoid deaths this way that a sword/axe/ fist doesnt provide and 5 str 4 hits (and 1 Str 6) still wound on a 6.

At least that my reason for taking a maul.

[ORKILL]

I go with the Power Axe with GHs. AP2 +1 S, extra attack with BP. What's not to like.

[skeletoro]

Axe (or other unwieldy weapon) is my starting point. A special weapon should make a qualitative difference to a unit's capabilities. Giving one grey hunter +2 strength... I don't really see the point - why not just get another grey hunter model for the same points cost? A power axe, on the other hand, will make a huge difference vs. Terminators.

 

However, I would lean away from equipping a character or whole unit with axes if they lack a good armour save or invulnerable save. In challenges a character with a 3+ and an unwieldy weapon is quite vulnerable. Hidden power axes are a bit different, but I wouldn't for instance, give a pack leader with 3+/-- an axe, nor would I to bananas with axes in a twc/wg pack without making sure there were plenty of ablative wounds in the pack and/or some storm shields to go around.

 

Even with tough units like big TWC packs or terminators, i'd make sure that some models were striking at initiative. This way if you lose models at i4, you can (if you have a choice) remove your non-unwieldy guys first, as they've at least had a chance to attack before they die.

 

So, here's my leanings:

 

GH: if anything, an axe. Wouldn't consider spending points on anything else.

BC: axe.

WG: I'd consider an axe, and/or a fist, and would shell out for a couple or storm shields too.

TDAWG: mostly axes when paired with a gun, a chainfist instead for one guy. A sword or maul for one guy (first casualty).

TWC: just ccw with a sprinkling of fists mostly, but a frost axe could be fun for some variety. Not really needed though - rending is good enough for most uses.

Rune priests: staves because I run biomancy.

Lords: relics or a fist or hammer.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Most of my decisions are based upon the 'cool factor', and not so much on the actual usefulness of the weapon.

 

For my Blood Claws, I have a power axe. They have not earned the honor to wield a fist or a hammer.

For my Grey Hunters, I have a power fist. I usually put it on the PL if I run a Lord with the pack, which I have been doing.

 

While swinging on initiative is key, the concussive special rule and it only effecting the model hit with the weapon makes my decision to run a power sword an easy one. I do like the look of the power maul that comes in the DA Ravenwing bike kit. I have a couple I will use in the future when I find the right warrior to wield them!!

 

End of Line

[FenrisWolf]

RPR, I like your honor idea, although I flip it they can have fists or hammers not axes at first. The axe is the honorary weapon. After all, the High King has one. Plus in my thoughts, as flawed as they are, it's easier to damage someone with a hammer than an axe.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

RPR, I like your honor idea, although I flip it they can have fists or hammers not axes at first. The axe is the honorary weapon. After all, the High King has one. Plus in my thoughts, as flawed as they are, it's easier to damage someone with a hammer than an axe.

 

I remember reading somewhere (the codex most likely) that when young Fenrisian's start their lives they are given an axe and then set out to live, or to die.

So for me, the axe is a weapon that is used by youths, teens, and men alike. To wield a more powerful weapon is the true honor.

 

End of Line

[FenrisWolf]

I guess unless it is a daemon forced into the shape of an axe...

[Nadir]

I guess unless it is a daemon forced into the shape of an axe...

You know, sometimes the elder people are like children ;)

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I guess unless it is a daemon forced into the shape of an axe...

You know, sometimes the elder people are like children

touche, brother!!

End of Line

[Amarog]

In a unit of termies with the intension of getting into CC i'd favour WC all the way, simply for the added re rolls to wound and still attacking at full initiate ... all the way home.

 

nothing worse than being in a decent close combat and having to wait till the end to punch some faces or hammer some ribs!

[callmeMrBadger]

My thinking is always depending on what the model is doing. If I can get an Axe on a non character then great, but I don't like my Characters hitting at I1 - they to often ge challenged and kuilled before they swing, or have to decline a challenge, knowing they would die and don't do anything.

 

Power Maul is better in more situations, I thnk the only time a sword wins isin 3+ save fights, against 2+, 4+, 5+ and 6+ then the power maul wins. On a Rune Priest, the Maul is great, as getting iron arm on it means getting Smash. (All close combat attacks at AP2) - so Force staff with iron arm turns you runepriest into a S9 AP2 Instant death kill machine (assuming you cast force) - say good night Mr Wraithknight / Riptide

[xxoblivionxx33]

i run the krakenbone because i run the supplement and challenges very much occur every charge. 

[Baulder]

I think most of these options have been covered but I'll give my reasoning.

 

BC/GH - axe so they have a hidden ap 2 that has the staying power in round 2 combat by keeping the additional ccw attack

TWC - Mauls, str 7 ap4, rending attacks at initative (str8 with Harald), I take IP for the str10

WGTDA - A mix, usually a couple of ap3 weapons (sword/claw), a maul for light tank busting and space elf splatting and an axe/fist/hammer for heavy lifting. Usually initative weapons on pack leaders (SS/WC combo is good)

RP - staff, biomancy, iron arm str9 ap2 (what is not to like) or just str6 and force can do a good job in the right situation

WL - krakenbone normally, I5 is tough to give up

[skeletoro]

who is going to reliably kill a 2+/3++ WGPL before the WGPL gets to strike back at i1? Seems either theyre not likely to kill the WGPL (low number of attacks and or ap3 or worse), in which case i4 is dispensable or else theyre quite nasty characters with lots of attacks and more than one wound (in which case striking at s8 ap2 is a HUGE boon and a WGPL without ap2 and/or ID will almost certainly fail to kill the model anyway, so striking first is less useful).

[Vykryl]

How do you get a 2+ on a pack leader?

[Rift Blade]

TDA

[Vykryl]

Forgot about TDA option. Was trying to figure out how to give a power armour pack leader a 2+ save. I've got to start sleeping more than 5 hours a night so I can think straight

[Baulder]

It is just a personal choice for me. I prefer to have slower weapons on untargetable and given that the CoF detachment requires challenges I find the wc/ss combo to have nice offensive capability across various situations. On the other hand for my WGPL on a bike I have PF/SS so I don't always run them with weapons that strike at initiative.