Lists without TWC.

[Yoyo ninja]

As cool as TWC are, I really want an army not based around them, mainly because I can't be bothered to go and buy them as I already have 3000pts of wolves sitting around and because it's the same as everyone else. As a base list of around 1000pts (a standard size game I play) I have come up with the following list.

 

HQ

Wolf guard battle leader with runic armour, storm shield and depending on what army I'm up against either wolf claw and melta bombs or a powerfist (they are the same points so are easily interchangeable)

 

Troops

x9 Grey hunters with close combat weapons, a plasma gun and a rhino with extra armour.

 

x9 Grey Hunters with close combat weapons and a plasma gun, a wolf guard leader with Storm Shield and either wolf claw and melta bombs or a powerfist. They get a drop pod.

 

Elites

x5 Wolf Scouts, camo cloaks, x4 sniper rifles and a missile launcher with flakk missiles.

 

Fast Attack

x9 Skyclaws and a Wolf Guard leader with storm shield and either wolf claws and melta bombs or powerfist.

 

Heavy Support

A vindicator with a storm bolter.

 

Tactics with these guys I was thinking have the scouts infiltrate somewhere with good cover and lines of sight in the mid field, then first turn drop the Grey hunter squad close to them to help reinforce them and give me a strong forward position. The vindicator and grey hunters and wolf guard battle leader in the rhino are there to assault strong enemy positions. And the Skyclaws are there to counter any big threats up close/ grab uncontested positions late in the game.

 

What does everyone think? Anyone got any other ideas on a TWC free list?

[Donkalleone]

I would always take 10 Gh vor 2 Special weapons.

A single Flakk is wasted (in my Opinion) and a single vindicator has a high chance being useless because he is a high priority target.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well I've never used TWC, because I think the concept is derp and I haven't converted a stand in yet, so all my list are sans TWC. TWC favour an all out assault build, without them the best idea is to play the old dex way. As an intermediate 'jack of all trades' army, where we win by making the opponent fight the way he doesn't want to (so hang back and shoot vs Orks, get up in Tau's face etc.).

 

Tanks are a solid choice, even with hull points, stuff like vindicators and Sicarans (if FW is available) are great units. You'll probably struggle somewhat against heavily twinked lists (sadly TWC are our dexes 'go to' power unit). But I haven't really overhauled my current list since 5th and it doesn't do too badly when I actually manage a game.

 

As for your list, the Hunter's that the WGBL isn't going with should be 10 men with the 2nd special. You could save some points for this by trimming the gear on your WGPL, that's a lot of gear for a 1W model, even with as 3++.

 

I'd also drop the Scouts, and replace them with a second vindicator if you want to be mean. If you want to keep them, that flakk missile is a waste of points, the savings could be sent into getting more plasma for your Hunters. Or even contribute to getting the WGBL a Jump Pack, so he's not standing around for a turn after getting out of the Rhino before assaulting.

[DanPesci]

Although arguably TWC are one of, if not the best unit, in the new codex, i still think you can run a good SW force without them

 

We still have a good solid allrounder troops choice in grey hunters, a decent cheap troops choice in bloodclaws, we can do bike assault well with wolf guard, and our terminators are very flexible when it comes to their loadout. The CoF supplement adds further options on top of that with a few nice formations/WS boosts.

 

If i was running no TWC at all, id probably go for lots of wolf guard...some on bikes, some in TDA - but thats just cos im favouring more assaulty list just now ;)

[Yoyo ninja]

I only didn't take the extra special weapon with the 10man grey hunter squad because of points, the list already comes in a 1011pts. Also a couple strong characters are good to chalange out other characters in an all comers list. Let the rest of the unit get on with what they do best ;)

The flakk was what I was thinking of dropping if anyone got penicity over points, as you say one lot of flakk ain't much.

As for heavy support, in any small list it's going to be a high priority target and for the points I think the vindicator is going to pack a punch with enough survivability to do a bit of damage.

 

Out of interest what would be your Standard go to GH unit and what would you swap the vindicator for?

[Yoyo ninja]

I made a wolf priest with jump pack to go with my sky claws, would he be a better option instead of the WGBL do we think? He is a bit more pricy, but I suppose I could get rid of the WGPL in that unit and save that way.

 

What do people think about WGPLs? I'm not sensing a lot of love for them.haha. Am I chucking to many points at them?

[DanPesci]

These days i keep my grey hunters simple. 10 men, 2 special weapons (melta or plasma), and then either a rhino or drop pod.

 

 

 

 

What do people think about WGPLs? I'm not sensing a lot of love for them.haha. Am I chucking to many points at them?

 

As mentioned above, they become a bit of a points sink for a 1 wound character. I would prefer to take a second special weapon with the grey hunters and just leave them as a nice shooty unit, that can do some damage in assaults when needed. Id argue you'd be better off with a 'hidden' power axe or wolf claw in the squad without paying the tax for the extra leader.

 

 

The wolf priest with jump pack seems to fit the army a bit better, that way he can go off assaulting with the skyclaws (which is what they want to be doing anyway), whilst your hunters secure objectives.

[rgr_maddog]

Drop pod lists are still pretty good for us wolves, and it's hard to fit TWC in an all-out one (unless your outflanking with Harold, but don't let Immersturm know I've considered outflanking with TWC).

[Z00Z]

I made a wolf priest with jump pack to go with my sky claws, would he be a better option instead of the WGBL do we think? He is a bit more pricy, but I suppose I could get rid of the WGPL in that unit and save that way.

 

What do people think about WGPLs? I'm not sensing a lot of love for them.haha. Am I chucking to many points at them?

 

Definitely. You seem to be stuck in 5th codex ways. You have 9 GH's with a single plasma and a pf and meltabombs in a DP. So you rapid fire plasma, on DP entry which is fine. Single model though. This limits the whole units ability to fire next turn forfeiting the GH assault if it does.  Plus you paying the CCW tax.  It seems your list is  based on the 'jack-of-all-trades' GH lists of old where 7th requires mobility, specialisation and unit purpose. I'd suggest a complete unit of 10 GH's for the extra special weapon. Then decide what role its going to have. If its shooting, go 2x plasma, 1 combi-plasma and no extra CCW. 

If you go meltas, you can assault, so go 2x melta, 1 combi-melta on WGPL and meltabombs as a tank hunting role. If its CC based, then pay the CCW tax and special weapons accordingly. 

 

On your fast slot, if you going skyclaws, go 2 units of 5 if thats your only fast options instead of 1 of 10. Then build towards its lower BS/WS with flamers instead for horde / quick objective capture. 

 

Your vindicator is also very range dependent, so again you need to be absolutely sure what its role is going to be because you taking a DP. Also you only have a single one of them so its going to be side/rear targetted very quickly. 

 

Scouts are squishy, and I'm not convinced they best in slot, especially elite. Taking a single missile launcher on them also means you cant fire the turn you move as its heavy. Also, requiring a full GH unit to support them does not support the mobility/objectives change in 7th. 

[tylerw]

 

I made a wolf priest with jump pack to go with my sky claws, would he be a better option instead of the WGBL do we think? He is a bit more pricy, but I suppose I could get rid of the WGPL in that unit and save that way.

 

What do people think about WGPLs? I'm not sensing a lot of love for them.haha. Am I chucking to many points at them?

 

Definitely. You seem to be stuck in 5th codex ways. You have 9 GH's with a single plasma and a pf and meltabombs in a DP. So you rapid fire plasma, on DP entry which is fine. Single model though. This limits the whole units ability to fire next turn forfeiting the GH assault if it does.  Plus you paying the CCW tax.  It seems your list is  based on the 'jack-of-all-trades' GH lists of old where 7th requires mobility, specialisation and unit purpose. I'd suggest a complete unit of 10 GH's for the extra special weapon. Then decide what role its going to have. If its shooting, go 2x plasma, 1 combi-plasma and no extra CCW. 

If you go meltas, you can assault, so go 2x melta, 1 combi-melta on WGPL and meltabombs as a tank hunting role. If its CC based, then pay the CCW tax and special weapons accordingly. 

 

On your fast slot, if you going skyclaws, go 2 units of 5 if thats your only fast options instead of 1 of 10. Then build towards its lower BS/WS with flamers instead for horde / quick objective capture. 

 

Your vindicator is also very range dependent, so again you need to be absolutely sure what its role is going to be because you taking a DP. Also you only have a single one of them so its going to be side/rear targetted very quickly. 

 

Scouts are squishy, and I'm not convinced they best in slot, especially elite. Taking a single missile launcher on them also means you cant fire the turn you move as its heavy. Also, requiring a full GH unit to support them does not support the mobility/objectives change in 7th. 

 

 

Unless you really just want to play your scouts, which is fine, I'd probably try to drop them for a dreadnought (just the bare basic one) and throw him in the drop pod.  Take the GH unit that was podding in and throw them in another rhino/razorback, if you have it.  Then you're not sticking 10 figures potentially into harm's way with your Vindicator.

That's just me though.  Otherwise, you might consider swapping the vindicator for a predator.

[Lord Blackwood]

I love thunderwolf cav so this is a difficult concept for me to wrap my head around T n T. 

That being said have you thought of using wolf guard bikers ?  They can be very cheap , and are fast and shooty I prefer them to skyclaws cause the bikes have jink and aren't terrible in assault themselves. Not to mention if you need to you can toss an extra 10 points on em fer combi meltas and the like. 

[Frater Cornelius]

No TWC?

 

...

 

[Yoyo ninja]

Are preds not just as much or a target as a vindicator? I suppose it's got a bit more range but you do have to pay to make them worth taking.

I don't desperately need the scouts, in the past they have been useful for taking out MCs, heavy weapon squads and characters, but a dread have worked for similar things as well.

 

I defo see where I'm going wrong with GH now though, I have tended to kit them up as jack of all trades and wasted loads of points on them. Also I think my usual opponents haven't helped with that, I play a lot against eldar and their dark kin, so I kinda gave up trying to out manuver them and just try to kill as many as possible (and when the dark eldar archon and his retinue of incubi out combat most things I throw at them then that doesn't go to well either!haha,)

[Yoyo ninja]

I love thunderwolf cav so this is a difficult concept for me to wrap my head around T n T.

That being said have you thought of using wolf guard bikers ? They can be very cheap , and are fast and shooty I prefer them to skyclaws cause the bikes have jink and aren't terrible in assault themselves. Not to mention if you need to you can toss an extra 10 points on em fer combi meltas and the like.

 

I do like the idea of TWC,i just not the thought of having to spend loads more money to get a decent unit of them. I already have loads of models I don't use. If I'm honest I probably will get some eventually and be like everyone else, but till then I want my wolves to be playable.

I already have the Skyclaws and I love being able to pick up 40 dice and see the look of terror on my opponents face ;)

[Yoyo ninja]

Also I have loads of stuff to paint already, need to finish all that before I get anything else!

[tylerw]

Are preds not just as much or a target as a vindicator? I suppose it's got a bit more range but you do have to pay to make them worth taking.

I don't desperately need the scouts, in the past they have been useful for taking out MCs, heavy weapon squads and characters, but a dread have worked for similar things as well.

 

I defo see where I'm going wrong with GH now though, I have tended to kit them up as jack of all trades and wasted loads of points on them. Also I think my usual opponents haven't helped with that, I play a lot against eldar and their dark kin, so I kinda gave up trying to out manuver them and just try to kill as many as possible (and when the dark eldar archon and his retinue of incubi out combat most things I throw at them then that doesn't go to well either!haha,)

I just say Pred IF you're dropping GHs as your pod payload - that way you don't have to worry about serving them a piece of pie (plate).  If you drop pod in the dread though, I wouldn't sweat it - his job is usually to MM something, then begin tarpitting important units or mashing squishy units.  It's not too bad if he MMs an important piece of armor, but has a pieplate hit him + the stuff around him.  

[grouj]

http://southoftheeyeofterror.blogspot.com/2014_10_01_archive.html

 

This is actually a dreadnought list I am putzing with at the moment, though I am currently debating removing two of the dreads to open more points up to add some additional threats such as fliers and troops.

[ContemptuousAngel]

I'm not a fan of TWC at all, think they're cheesy as hell, the cheesiest thing in a cheesy game and so I'm put off of them. I'm thinking of running my bikes as TWC, though. It's the models I can't stand, not the rules.

 

My answer is MOAR MECH!!!!! MOOOOOOOOOOOAR TANKS!!!! MOAR FLYERS! 

[Frater Cornelius]

TWC are cheesy? I am sorry, what gaming system are you using? A melee unit can not be cheesy by default in this meta. Compare them to Serpents, Warp Spiders, some of the Tau toys and then try again. I am sorry to be so snappy, but TWC is as far away from cheese as you can get. They are actually kind of weak in most cases due to their high cost. It takes considerable amount of skill to even make it into melee with them against some of the xenos armies you see floating around.

[Vykryl]

Immersturm, he said it's the models he can't stand but he does like their rules.

 

I'm the same way. Really like the TWC rules but am having a hard time with models. Have had thoughts of imitating your horse mounted marines. My thought was to model scouts as riders. Guess it's the power armour that puts me off visually

[Frater Cornelius]

When I hear cheesy, I always think rules. Either way, if you do not like the model, there is plenty of other things that has 4 legs and is rideable.

 

@ Vykryl - go ahead man, riders are awesome. even if I am this close of putting them through a blender.

[Yoyo ninja]

Thanks everyone for your inputs, I have learned a few things so thanks. I think I need to play some more games and find a list that works for me. I play quite conservatively, so maybe TWC wouldn't work for me anyway. I have come up with a revised list that I think works a bit better than the first one.

 

HQ

Wolf Priest, runic armour, melta bombs, jump pack

 

Troops

x10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma rifles, rhino

 

X10 Grey Hunters, 2 melta guns, CCW, rhino

 

Elite

Standard Dreadnaught, drop pod

 

Fast Attack

x5 Skyclaws

 

x5 Skyclaws

 

Heavy Support

Predator, twin linked lascannon, lascannon sponsons.

 

That comes in at 990, so I could add a flamer to each skyclaw squad or extra armour to one of the rhinos but basicly that's about it. I still need to buy a few bits to make the list (a pod, a box of skyclaws and see if I can find a predator weapons sprue on fleabay, then I'll magnetise my whirlwind before I finish putting it together so I can have it as either or) but that's not a horrendous commitment.

 

I do miss the days of my Loganwing, got 10 TDA WG, the old metal Logan, a TDA RP, some long fangs and a land raider sat about doing nothing. I know I can still run it, but Logan isn't what he used to be, and it a pricy list for smaller games. Maybe their time will come again.

[Yoyo ninja]

As to the TWC, the models have grown on me, I wasn't a fan at first, I agree it's the power armour. Fluff wise a fully armoured marine is suppose to weigh around a ton, that's quite a lot of weight for a wolf to be carrying into battle. There is no denying that the rules make up for it though, they do stomp face.

[Lord Blackwood]

Its a Thunderwolf ,the apex predator of Fenris being used as a steed to  ride into battle.  I  dont see the problem , If a Thunderwolf is anything like it is depicted in the fluff  then supporting a guy in power armor shouldnt be a problem. I LOVE modeling these things because you can make them look obscenely cool  if you  take the time to do it.  Remember its not a regular wolf its a wolf thats about as big as our rhinos and may or may not be the descendant of a failed aspirant. 

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140810200137/warhammer40k/images/thumb/8/86/Harald_Deathwolf_vs._Tzeentch_Daemons.png/500px-Harald_Deathwolf_vs._Tzeentch_Daemons.png

If it can  NOM NOM NOM  a MArine In Power Armor I sincerely doubt that it minds one riding it.

[Yoyo ninja]

I know the fluff behind them, I finished reading Prospero Burns not so long ago(awesome book!) and they go into thunderwolves a little bit in that. Plus I obviously read the codex and stuff.

 

Like I said, the models have grown on me. It's kinda like the stormwolf, I disliked that when it first came out, I thought it was a lazy kit bash and looked like it would never fly, let alone be functional on a battle field. But again, the more I look at it the more I like it.