Sanguinary Guard, Are they now viable?

[Kais89]

With the pretty much unanimous confirmation that SG have been reduced in points, who else is eager to play them and what role do you see them filling?

 

For me, i can see them replacing my Sternguard suicide unit, or providing support for them. With the reduced points cost, adding a few Infernus Pistols doesn't seem like a bad idea and having them deep strike near vulnerable armor.

 

Heck, even axes on SG isn't horrible against vehicles in assault (although th/ss do it better for 60 more points).

 

So how will you other commanders be putting them to use? Are you going to field 10 in a single unit? What about a priest or banner?

[ElectricPaladin]

I think I've got to wait and see what else is in the book!

[Jolemai]

In my opinion, it's too early to say.

[Shaezus]

Defo too early. For me personally it hinges on what GW do with Dante and how he affects the Sanguinary Guard.

[Gaweda]

I'm with Shaezus. Dante is key for me to switch to them.

[Jorre]

For me I'm thinking a 10 man squad. Hopefully there will be scope to create a captain with a chapter relic that gives eternal warrior, guve him a storm shield and he can tank high ap shots for the squad

[Jorre]

Or maybe Sanguinor will get ic status and be able to fill that roll

[Kais89]

If Sanguinor got IC, i could see a lot of people using him more.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Too early to tell, HOWEVER ...

 

Sanguinary Guard have always been and always will be a part of my army anyway. So the 165 pts is more relevant to me in terms of what else I can bring (like MOAR Sanguinary Guard!).

 

But I definitely need to see what, if anything, has changed for them otherwise and what Sanguinary Priests will do ... will they still give a FNP bubble? Will there be other ways to protect them from AP2 weapons (dare I hope for eternal warrior Dante -- with his Iron Halo he could do decent tanking).

[ElectricPaladin]

I will go far enough to say that if nothing else in the codex changes, these changes would lead me to use Sanguinary Guard more often. I wouldn't say they need a change to Dante to become useful. I just don't want to promise "yes, I'm all about the Sanguinary Guard!" and have it turn out that I was prematurely enthused.

[Cronhour]

I think they'll make a good second wave for a pod list, especially throwing a priest in possibly giving. Or a nice backfield killer unit for a armour focused list.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think they'll make a good second wave for a pod list, especially throwing a priest in possibly giving. Or a nice backfield killer unit for a armour focused list.

 

I think they'll have pretty good durability, especially if priests still give FNP. T 4, 2+ save, 5+ FNP... it's not an invulnerable save, but it ain't bad, either. Too bad there's no way to strap a jump pack to an allied ecclesiarchy priest!

[Cronhour]

 

I think they'll make a good second wave for a pod list, especially throwing a priest in possibly giving. Or a nice backfield killer unit for a armour focused list.

 

 

I think they'll have pretty good durability, especially if priests still give FNP. T 4, 2+ save, 5+ FNP... it's not an invulnerable save, but it ain't bad, either. Too bad there's no way to strap a jump pack to an allied ecclesiarchy priest!

if our librarians come down to sm or wolves prices a bio or dived up libby would be a good addition, I'm hoping you can combat squad at 10 as well.

[Red-beard]

I already play Sanguinary guard in my lists .

[SamaNagol]

Not as they are yet. Maybe though. Depends on what else is in there. Formations/Relics/ICs

[Red-beard]

Of course they are viable. This is a unit that hits like a ton of bricks, has decent shooting, a 2+ cover save, and moves 12" a turn. 

 

Just because a unit doesn't have an invuln save doesn't mean it's not playable.

 

You can use cover saves. You can also give them FNP with a priest. Plasma doesn't insta-kill them, so they can take cover saves and/or a 5+ FNP. Yes, melta guns ignore their FNP, but they still get cover saves against melta and are mobile enough to avoid most of it. 

[JamesI]

I've always loved the SG, so anything that improves them is awesome in my book.  Cheaper SG and larger squads, yes please.

[Daedrolol]

hey ,people ...how we now 
most named characters lost they rules 
to give they chanse to change slot for unit
unless captian on bike and some DA  heroes...
so...Dante may lost his rule too

[ElectricPaladin]

hey ,people ...how we now 

most named characters lost they rules 

to give they chanse to change slot for unit

unless captian on bike and some DA  heroes...

so...Dante may lost his rule too

 

Yeah... we're all pretty much expecting to lose the sanguinary guard to Troops trick...

 

That said, I don't think it's that important to the unit's success. We'll live.

[Red-beard]

Particularly since all units are scoring in 7E, it's not as big of a deal if we can't run SG as troops. They are a fairly durable fast moving unit that can still claim an objective, get line breaker, etc. 

[SonOfThunder]

Need to know what happens to van vets and honor guard...then factor in the cheaper DC jumpers...there's just gonna be so many viable options for strong jumper units in the near future, it's difficult to decide. Lower price does make them more attractive though!!

[Silverson]

I'll be running 2 squads of 5. Both with 3 swords a axe and a fist, one squad with a banner and either 1 or 2 priests, these wil be behind my Baal pred, 2 squads of 10 assault marines(or possibly dc) and drop pod dread ( most likely Libby)

 

General plan is drop dread as distraction that needs to be dealt with

Scout pred and use as mobile cover

Use assault squads as a "thin red line" to give me intervening models cover

Then if assault marines get charged my sang guard are my counter assault if not get assault marines into and sanguinary guard target what is needed.

 

Obviously this is all subject to blow up in my face first turn as games never pan out easily but as a basic. Direction for my army I like.

 

Jump packs everywhere.

 

Ps looking forward to what all our hq options are going to be because I have been using astorath a lot lately and want to give everyone else a try

[Remtek]

They viable, but still not very good in my opinion. I'll use them for sure. If we get a decently priced IC with Eternal Warrior and 3++ they become alot better.

[Karhedron]

With a price cut of nearly 20%, they certainly become a lot better. I have 25 to make up that I picked up cheaply but I have been waiting for the new codex before I finished assembling them.

 

My current ideas are along the lines of 2 10-man squads with just a few upgrades to bear the brunt of the fighting. A 5-man squad all with infernus pistols to DS and take out enemy armour (of course this depends on some version of DoA surviving in the new codex).

 

The big thing to remember is that between the price cut and the option to take larger squads, the issue of an invulnerable save is not quite so pressing. Sure, I hope we can still get FNP in there but the main thing is that we have a squad that can take a few casualties and still hit hard against elite enemy units. Certain armies can spam Ap2 easier than others so I don't think SG are going to become a death star unit the way TWC have for the puppies. However I think they may now be a decent unit, depending on what else is in the codex.

 

As for cover or an invulnerable save, you can always screen them with a unit of DC with jump packs. They will probably work well in tandem with the DC mulching through horde units while the SG take on the elite stuff.

 

As others have said though, synergy with ICs, special rules and upgrades will be the key to determining whether SG are good or merely playable. At least I won't feel like I am actively penalizing myself for taking them now, I just need to find a way to keep them clear of Grav guns.

[Morticon]

As very astute members have mentioned, will have to wait and see what else is in the book - buuuuuut - here's how i work the math.

 

Basically a 2+ save means you will fail half as many saves as a 3+ save - that means for the SG to be worthwhile, they need to be at a general max, twice as expensive than other jumpers for consideration.

 

While their wargear should balance or weigh in on that consideration strongly, its no point if they dont make it into combat with enough bodies to actually do something. 

 

If the RAS are 17ppm as per C:SM, then 33 is an exceptional deal considering the wargear we get in addition to that. 

 

Depending on how I can build them in, I think they will make a "return" to my army (i've literally only used them 2 or 3 times).