Kranon's Helguard Dataslate

[Dammeron]

Yup, we have a new formation as part of GW's advent calendar; in this case, an addition to all of you budding Crimson Slaughterers out there which represents Krannon the Relentless's personal warband.

 

It's quite a good formation, in many respects; a little large and expensive, points cost wise, but has some decent units and some fairly good special rules (one of which helps out our Chaos Space Marines with their morale woes, another of which diminishes the enemy's capacity to shoot).

 

Not bad, as they go; not bad at all.

[Slaanbull]

That sounds not bad at all, did you find the info somewhere or did you buy it yourself?
If they just provided it in .PDFs from the get-go I'd already buy it, but this epub/mobi requires me to convert it to my phone, or to bloat my PC even more with different applications.

[brother_contagion]

That's awesome! Is this gonna be a dataslate to buy like the Helbrute one?

[Slaanbull]

That's awesome! Is this gonna be a dataslate to buy like the Helbrute one?

You can do that already if you want to, http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/kranons-helguard-ebook.html

[incinerator950]

I wish they'd improve their naming convention.

[brother_contagion]

I wish they'd improve their naming convention.

 

lol, yeah, not too original. It was enough they named our Dreadnough a Helbrute, but when it starts to become a prefix it starts to loose any flair that it had (never had?).

 

But the rules and what's in the formation is pretty cool. -1LD and -1BS for enemies within 12" of a mode/unit in the formation. Psychic Shriek would be more valuable, also Interceptors for DS Termicide are rendered a little less effective, but also shooting in general. I'd like to see this formation go up against Orks to make them all BS1, LOL.

[King Jackal]

I'm really looking forward to the Deathangelblood Cannon or something equivalently stupid in the new BA codex.

 

On topic, what does this new formation actually do?

edit: ah

[Slaanbull]

Right, I don't have the formation myself, so maybe someone else can confirm/correct this, it's taken from a comment on BoLS.
Uses the units from Dark Vengeance and the expansion thing, so it's 1 Chaos Lord, 1 unit of chosen, 1 unit of terminators, 2 units of cultists, 1 unit of raptors, a chaos land raider and a helbrute.
They get the stubborn and fear special rules.
And "Swarm of Phantasms: Enemy units that are within 12" of at least one unit from this Formation subtract 1 from their Leadership. Enemy units that are within 12" of at least two units from this Formation also subtract 1 from their Ballistic Skill, to a minimum of 1."

 

Edit: Seems like Brother_Contagion beat me to it.. ;)

[brother_contagion]

Yeah I picked it up after I saw the thread. lol, $3 ain't so bad! And you're correct on what's contained in the formation. I'm just thinking of two units of 30 Stubborn Cultists... haha

 

EDIT: Just re-read that it's -1BS if at least 2 units from the formation are within 12" of an enemy unit. So I guess you'd have to DS both the Termicide unit and the Raptor unit close together, which would make it more unlikely to reduce the BS of Interceptor models with scatter and chance for mishap being closer together and to enemy units. Eh, worth a try.

[the jeske]

That is a lot of points for -1Ld and BS. Technicly the lord+temis+LR is 3 units cultists can conga to be always close. so aside for the raptors anything near it will be debuff. But still it is a hell lot of points .

[brother_contagion]

I'm gonna find some ways on how to use it in my games. Most of those models are what I bring anyways so it's not a big deal for me.

[Dammeron]

On a side note, the formation is also not specific rules wise to the Crimson Slaughter; only to Chaos Space Marines, so you could quite happily use this in conjunction with your Black Legion army or your "vanilla" codex lists if you so wish.

[stev]

Is there much fluff etc in the dataslate?

[Kilofix]

That is a lot of points for -1Ld and BS. Technicly the lord+temis+LR is 3 units cultists can conga to be always close. so aside for the raptors anything near it will be debuff. But still it is a hell lot of points .

 

I don't think you'd intentionally build the Formation just to get the rules but if you already have the Formation from DV - then the rules are a bonus.

 

@stev - yes, there are a few pages of fluff in the dataslate.

[Lucio]

It's actually a little odd in that it doesn't use the Crimson Slaughter codex, so you can't actually pick up Krannon's artifacts, nor use the Crimson Slaughter warlord traits (which has a very similar entry to the formation special rule).

 

All in all, a poorly written marketing ploy that a) Should have been given away free with the new expansion set and b) Should have been a Crimson Slaughter formation

[Prot]

I'll tell you one thing, this formation is a LOT better than the Dark Angel variant.

I've never used formations in 40K aside from the Helbrute stuff. Aside from squad size, what happens if you expand the list? Can it be made legal at any point level?

It's actually a little odd in that it doesn't use the Crimson Slaughter codex, so you can't actually pick up Krannon's artifacts, nor use the Crimson Slaughter warlord traits (which has a very similar entry to the formation special rule).

All in all, a poorly written marketing ploy that a) Should have been given away free with the new expansion set and Should have been a Crimson Slaughter formation

You can use the Crimson Slaughter artifacts.... it's called "Kranon's Helguard". The Crimson Slaughter is not a codex, it's a supplement.

[Dammeron]

It's actually a little odd in that it doesn't use the Crimson Slaughter codex, so you can't actually pick up Krannon's artifacts, nor use the Crimson Slaughter warlord traits (which has a very similar entry to the formation special rule).

All in all, a poorly written marketing ploy that a) Should have been given away free with the new expansion set and Should have been a Crimson Slaughter formation

It's not that you can't use the CS supplement if you don't want to; the formation is specific to any army that has the Chaos Space Marine faction, so any Chaos army can user it; Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, vanilla or whatever.

[Sheesh Mode]

The formation runs in a near identical manner to how my chosen run: close knit, assault focused, and well within range to support one another. It should not be particularly difficult to keep them within range of one another so long as you apply your units where they are the most useful.  

 

I may actually purchase this to complement my Black Legion. 

[RolandTHTG]

I'll tell you one thing, this formation is a LOT better than the Dark Angel variant.

 

I've never used formations in 40K aside from the Helbrute stuff. Aside from squad size, what happens if you expand the list? Can it be made legal at any point level?

 

 

If you want to add guys that aren't on the list, you have to buy them from another detachment. If it is only a couple other units you want, you can easily add a allied detachment and use this lord as your Warlord. 

 

Glad to hear that we actually get a better formation than loyalists for once (ok, they're dark angels, but still...) 

I may actually buy raptors one of these days, since I have everything else. 

[brother_contagion]

Since this is a dataslate/formation, couldn't you run 2 at the same time? In a similar way you could run 2 Mayhem Packs, since they're also formations?

[Sheesh Mode]

Can we also take the time to appreciate stubborn cultists that cause fear? Imagine.... Mark of Khorne cultists led by a Dark Apostle... *drools*

[Prot]

Can we also take the time to appreciate stubborn cultists that cause fear? Imagine.... Mark of Khorne cultists led by a Dark Apostle... *drools*

 

Use a helcult formation and/or a Dark Apostle from Crimson Slaughter and you have what I would consider, something much better.

 

 

 

 

I'll tell you one thing, this formation is a LOT better than the Dark Angel variant.

 

I've never used formations in 40K aside from the Helbrute stuff. Aside from squad size, what happens if you expand the list? Can it be made legal at any point level?

 

 

If you want to add guys that aren't on the list, you have to buy them from another detachment. If it is only a couple other units you want, you can easily add a allied detachment and use this lord as your Warlord. 

 

 

 

So we typically battle forged armies that may include formations IE: Helcult/Helbrutes. So I'm clear, none of these 'troops' will have objective secured then and this can't be a battle forged force org? Correct?

 

Can I use this lord to take Possessed and a few Chaos Marines to make it legit? Or do I need to take another HQ?

 

Also I guess the reality is that if I put more Crimson Slaughter into this formation, I have to keep track of which units are from the formation and which are not because the outside units WILL NOT count for the bonuses to being within 12".

 

Sounds confusing and silly. lol

[Tenebris]

Well as a formation it is indeed interesting but I struggle to see the merit of it. Sure it can be useful against some armies, thematic too, but point by point it does not put so many benefits on the board in order to justify all those expensive units. I have the units available to field this formation, I will indeed play it, but I think it is more of an "occasional" thing than a detachment upon which you could build a strategy or an army around. 

[Scribe]

I was hoping to see more Formations and Detachments like Inquisitors, Assassins and Grey Knights. If GW started pushing stuff like that for Chaos, (Legions?) I'd be all over it.

[incinerator950]

I was hoping GW would take our good units and expand on a usable formation.

 

Solidifies the nich and GW gets more sales.