Help against Tau

[Adeptus]

Ok folks, here's the situation. My opponent who I will be facing on Monday will be taking 1,850 points of Tau. His current force is pretty much just the Farsight Eight, plus whatever he has time to assemble over the weekend.

 

At my disposal I have:

 

About 20 Terminators, and 10 Paladins which can be used as Termies in a pinch.

2 Dreadknights (modelled with Psycannon and Sword only)

5 Interceptors

10 Purifiers

10 Strikes

1 Rhino

1 Landraider Crusader

1 Stormraven

1 Inquisitor + a range of henchmen

1 Librarian (plus another half converted)

1 Grandmaster

1 Brother Champion

 

So I need to make a list out of these models.

 

My thoughts and concerns are: I will be facing a lot of suits, and at least one Riptide. This means interceptor nastiness. I could take my two Dreadknights, proxy my GM for Draigo and deploy him with 10 Terminators and then on the first turn I can shunt/gate up into his grill and do my best to take out the Riptide before my other Terminator squad/s arrive. However, given how good we are in combat and how much Tau suck in combat, and the way Tau suits jetpack all over the table, I doubt any of my units (except the Dreadknights) will see combat. Is Draigo worth the price tag if I'm only paying for the 3++ tanking and Gate?

 

On that note, can I use Draigo's 3++ to tank wounds from the Riptide intercepting me? I think on average a Riptide should only deal 4-5 wounds after scatter (unless it rolls a hit, then the unit is :cussed) which Draigo should be able to safely avoid with his 3++. By which I mean, would it be sensible to take a Nemesis Strike Force and deploy Draigo and his unit by Deepstrike?

 

Are gatling silencers a worthwhile secondary weapon for my Dreadknights? I feel like with two of them I could average 16 hits on a Riptide, which only turns into 2-3 wounds. I'd have to get pretty lucky for him to fail a save. Are the points better spent elsewhere?

 

Is the Raven worth it? Or can I just expect it to get shot out of the air in turn one?

 

Thoughts, experiences and anecdotes all welcome.

[Captain Coolpants]

In my experience, gatling psylencers are always worth it, (although my last game with a tau suit list they did rather poorly because of spammed plasma). I'd say you'd be better off increasing your invun save, rather than activating force.

 

 

And if the only interceptor are riptides, then take a raven, but if he has broadsides and stuff, I wouldn't bother.

 

Tau are literally THE worst match up for us in my opinion, we only work up close, they work amazing at range and they have abilities to stay at range 2d6 or 4d6 away every turn!

 

Your best bet would be a shunt and power armour list. If he's taking suits, then that's spammed plasma+melta, to which you only get a slight chance to save, so I'd rather have almost double the bodies and shots with power armour.

Plus you can saturate more of the board with small combat squaded 5 man squads, making whatever he intercepts a small points loss. I know I'd much rather a riptides pie plate straight up kill 5 combat squaded guys than to get over 5 kills on a full squad, then have that squad run away...

 

I'd also go with as many librarians as you can, and hope you roll for misfortune and the 4+ invun save on all of them haha.

 

To get Rending on storm bolters is amazing! Remember a 6 is an auto wound at ap2 regardless of toughness (take that stupid riptides!).

And obviously the invun to survive low ap spam.

 

The only tactics against tau really are, move up the board behind cover, just to get 50% of it ignored anyway, and slowly get shot to peices each turn.

 

OR

 

Speed at them to minimise how much shooting they can do to you. Which for us would be to deepstrike as close as we possibly can, with EVERYTHING!

 

Maybe ally 1 single naked inquisitor to deploy 3 servo skulls 16" away from your opponents gun line? Your opponent would need a full movement and more than 2 thrust move dice to reach the skulls then.

 

But all I can say is good luck! :-P

[calvin the wraithlord]

Run as many NDKs and Interceptors as possible and shunt into there lines and burn them!!! failing that, although id never usually say go for it maybe even a redeemer with purifiers? I honestly wouldnt waste the extra points on TEQ's as they die just the same to tau firepower

[Adeptus]

I'm leaning towards the second option. Is Draigo a worthwhile investment do you think? The suits he'll be using are the Farsight Eight, so not just spammed plasma. Still not a lot of fun for a terminator heavy army, but not as bad as it could be.

Run as many NDKs and Interceptors as possible and shunt into there lines and burn them!!! failing that, although id never usually say go for it maybe even a redeemer with purifiers? I honestly wouldnt waste the extra points on TEQ's as they die just the same to tau firepower

Yeah, but even with the prevalence of Ap2, the Termies are still the better option. Strikes can't shoot, can't fight, and won't get any saves either. At least the Termies can still use their Psycannons and can take advantage of a 5++ (or 4++ with Sanctuary)

[Happy-inquisitor]

Ok folks, here's the situation. My opponent who I will be facing on Monday will be taking 1,850 points of Tau. His current force is pretty much just the Farsight Eight, plus whatever he has time to assemble over the weekend.

 

.

The Farsight 8 is a fluffy fun basis for a list, you really should be ok with a decent balanced list.

 

The usual advice mostly applies; kill the markerlights, assault riptides don't shoot them (especially O'Vesa). You should kill them in assault but unlike most Tau lists this one has a couple of capable fighters that can kill your GKT or NDK so don't get overconfident . Draigo can wreck them.

 

Have fun.

[calvin the wraithlord]

I'm leaning towards the second option. Is Draigo a worthwhile investment do you think? The suits he'll be using are the Farsight Eight, so not just spammed plasma. Still not a lot of fun for a terminator heavy army, but not as bad as it could be.

Run as many NDKs and Interceptors as possible and shunt into there lines and burn them!!! failing that, although id never usually say go for it maybe even a redeemer with purifiers? I honestly wouldnt waste the extra points on TEQ's as they die just the same to tau firepower

Yeah, but even with the prevalence of Ap2, the Termies are still the better option. Strikes can't shoot, can't fight, and won't get any saves either. At least the Termies can still use their Psycannons and can take advantage of a 5++ (or 4++ with Sanctuary)

 

 

yeah perhaps i was abit hasty on that one, although i was thinking more incinerators, im just reeling from a annihilation i suffered at the hands of tau last night, getting into combat with them is the hardest thing and us being a cc army makes them a tough match up. Although Deeps striking is ill advised it can occasionally work, other than that id still just say shunt and pray

[Adeptus]

So, the list I'm looking at is:

 

Level 3 Librarian with the Domina Liber Daemonica

 

Kaldor Draigo

 

2 x 10 Terminators with 2 x Psycannon and an assortment of force weapons each.

 

2 x Dreadknights with personal teleporters and heavy psycannon.

 

Psyker Inquisitor in TDA with 3 Servo Skulls

 

Aegis line with comms relay.

 

Henchmen squad with 3 acolytes and a psyker.

 

Thoughts? This should give me enough flexibility to either start entirely in reserve, or start mostly on the board and use gate/shunt to get into combat turn 2.

[Rurik the blessed]

Your best option is to take Incinerators. and if you can, some psilencers (these are very good against suits),

you could take a Grand Master with a psilencer in a squad of terminators or paladins, as you like.

 

Another good option is to take a Xenos Inquisitor with a plasma syphon... it's true that 12" range is less, but if you Gate, would be enough.

Do not deep strike NDKs, just use the shunt move.

 

Interceptors are very good too. for the same reason as NDKs, they can shunt... then burn all with the Incinerator.

[Raztalin]

Can you spare the points from anywhere to get an additional Psycannon on the Inq?

[calvin the wraithlord]

Your best option is to take Incinerators. and if you can, some psilencers (these are very good against suits),

you could take a Grand Master with a psilencer in a squad of terminators or paladins, as you like.

 

Paladins are a massive no no vs Tau, never take them, ever.

 

Id say drop the psy for incinerators, shunt your DKs turn one hit them with the psycannons and try and knock out afew interceptor shots, then deeps strike the rest of your boys, yes you'll get hurt from interceptor but meh, dragio can tank the shots, once down him them with incinerators, weather a turn of shooting, fire again, charge, gg for the tau player

[jeffersonian000]

Versus Tau, I rarely Deep Strike, preferring to Shunt/Gate on Turn 1, which means I rarely take a Fort for the Comms Relay. Primary targets are Marker Lights, so Incinerators on the GKIS and NDK. Still prefer Psycannons on my GKT. Always take Draigo, and I like to fish for Vortex on one of my Librarians, as the D will eat Riptides and provide hellishly good impassable terrain while its up (or soak my opponent's deny dice before I get to the real castings). Unlike most people, I like to spread out my damage by attacking several units at a time, going for disruption and board control right out of the box, only focusing on total removal of Marker Light models on turn one, then tying up rest turn 2. Any foot-sloggers (if I have any) will hug cover and go for Objectives. On the rare occasion when I do DS versus Tau, it's to capture an out of way Objective, with placement key to reduce Intercept fire.

 

SJ

[Brom MKIV]

So, the list I'm looking at is:

 

Level 3 Librarian with the Domina Liber Daemonica

 

Kaldor Draigo

 

2 x 10 Terminators with 2 x Psycannon and an assortment of force weapons each.

 

2 x Dreadknights with personal teleporters and heavy psycannon.

 

Psyker Inquisitor in TDA with 3 Servo Skulls

 

Aegis line with comms relay.

 

Henchmen squad with 3 acolytes and a psyker.

 

Thoughts? This should give me enough flexibility to either start entirely in reserve, or start mostly on the board and use gate/shunt to get into combat turn 2.

I like it in general. I think going for 2+ armour saturation is the better idea simply because it pulls firepower away from your knights which are key here.

 

However I do think your henchmen will die before they can activate the comms if he wins the roll. I think I would go for a bunker/bastion instead and put a henchmen firebase in it. Keep it cheap and to the point, something like 3 PC servitors, psyker and coteaz. Coteaz keeps farsight and suits honest with IBEY, does his seize the init stuff and draws fire away while taking shots at riptides. Changing your inquisition to this setup would cost +56 pts over current. Anyway just an idea.

 

I like jeffersonian000's suggestions as well btw and agree you should have incinerators on something with shunt. While I love draigo  I don't feel he is well suited to this match. I feel in this instance 2 libbys may end up being the better choice simply due to psychic shriek and invisibility. I would also lose the weapon upgrades outside of NDH's. Swords should be sufficient otherwise. 

 

Lastly I haven't tried the gat against tau yet but my gut tells me it wouldn't be stellar. You could try one for hunting suits but beyond that everything multi wound is 2+ armour. 

[raverrn]

A Gat Psi has a 22% chance of putting a wound through on a Riptide. That's not bad, all things considered.

[Adeptus]

Re: Incinerators. Since I know his list will be very suit heavy, are they still worthwhile? The only thing they'll be terribly useful against are the drones, and I think my Stormbolter shots should clean up any drones I care to shoot at anyway.

 

If I win first turn, I think I'm much better off gating/shunting. But if I don't win first turn, I have to suffer a round of shooting before I can move, in which case won't I be better off reserving everything and deploying by deepstrike? I suppose it depends on the deployment we roll since I may be able to deploy almost entirely out of range of his guns, and even if I go second I can take advantage of gate/shunt.

[Brom MKIV]

raverrn makes a good point. Plus you can always roll hot and/or he can also roll poorly. If I had pts to spare I would probably field one since I've had good success with mine.

Thing is the NDK is likely shooting at those riptides anyway so a gat won't mess with his target selection and goes better than the hvy incin here. Its like killing blow from WHF, its hit or miss but when it hits its great. Back before the game sucked I was running an all elf wardancer tribe that could throw well over 100 KB attacks/shots.  

[Happy-inquisitor]

A Gat Psi has a 22% chance of putting a wound through on a Riptide. That's not bad, all things considered.

Not on O'Vesa, as an IC he can dodge the bullets with LoS rolls. Seriously don't waste bullets when you need a 6 to wound and for him to roll two 1s to make that wound stick.

[raverrn]

 

A Gat Psi has a 22% chance of putting a wound through on a Riptide. That's not bad, all things considered.

Not on O'Vesa, as an IC he can dodge the bullets with LoS rolls. Seriously don't waste bullets when you need a 6 to wound and for him to roll two 1s to make that wound stick.

He can't dodge for long, especially if you pepper off his drones with your Heavy Psycannon. Sure he can go hit a different unit, but that effectively lowers his toughness.

 

It's all about working with what you got.

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

 

A Gat Psi has a 22% chance of putting a wound through on a Riptide. That's not bad, all things considered.

Not on O'Vesa, as an IC he can dodge the bullets with LoS rolls. Seriously don't waste bullets when you need a 6 to wound and for him to roll two 1s to make that wound stick.

He can't dodge for long, especially if you pepper off his drones with your Heavy Psycannon. Sure he can go hit a different unit, but that effectively lowers his toughness.

 

It's all about working with what you got.

 

 

The whole Tau force will not last long if you take a full-on competitive GK list with the intention of winning in easy-mode. However O'Vesa will often be the last model standing as he is unreasonably hard to kill with shooting so long as there is anything disposable nearby to make LoS rolls - fair enough for something that costs that much. Once he is the last model standing you are going to finish him off anyway so it hardly matters what with.

 

The 8 is not a remotely competitive list, only Farsight and O'Vesa will ever be seen in tournament style lists, the rest are kind of fun but not exactly tuned for points efficiency.

 

But yes, you have a 1/216 chance of killing him with each force-enabled psi hit until he and his unit run out of drones to take them. Which would be hilarious and definitely in the spirit of a beer and pretzels game.

[jeffersonian000]

If you are worried about getting shot off the board turn 1 if you go second, then you are not playing with the correct amount/type of terrain. 7th is the game were terrain saturation is paramount. We need LoS blocking at every step of the game, just line every otter non-gunline army in the game. If you literally cannot hide behind cover for one player turn, play with more terrain.

 

SJ

[Brom MKIV]

I was referring to TLSMS which can reach him regardless of terrain.

[jeffersonian000]

I was referring to TLSMS which can reach him regardless of terrain.

And can be survived by armor or cover saves. Or avoided via Reserves or being embarked.

 

Everything Tau has to offer can be countered by an aware opponent on a table with good terrain. Sticking to one plan is the quickest path to ruin.

 

SJ

[Brom MKIV]

TLSMS is 30" range + move and ignores cover and doesn't need LoS.. they are literally the reason I don't think 4 henchmen behind an ADL will work.

 

Edit- now if he should desire to stick to that then at least upgrade to power armour. Otherwise its ignore all saves no LoS = toast.

[jeffersonian000]

TLSMS is 30" range + move and ignores cover and doesn't need LoS.. they are literally the reason I don't think 4 henchmen behind an ADL will work.

 

Edit- now if he should desire to stick to that then at least upgrade to power armour. Otherwise its ignore all saves no LoS = toast.

Oh, I see! I don't use Inq units, so my strat vs Tau is more of a GK only think. My bad.

 

SJ

[Adeptus]

I kind of only included the Henchmen squad because I had 26 points spare and not much else to spend it on.

 

So what I'm leaning towards is: If I win the roll off, elect to go first. Deploy Draigo + Terminators + Inquisitor (who does have a psycannon, I just forgot to include it in the list) on the table with the two Dreadknights. Librarian and the other Terminators in reserve. Then I gate/shunt/deepstrike up the table, being very aggressive with Draigo and the Dreads since they can't be intercepted, and a bit more cautious with the other Terminators since I don't want them to eat a S9 pie plate without a 4+ cover save. I think I will trim points off by dropping the henchmen squad, find some points elsewhere and take at least one gatling psilencer. Who knows, it might pay off, right?

 

If I am stuck with the second turn, I will reserve everything except my two dreadknights, which will start on the table manning the comms relay. Then I will shunt with them and deepstrike with everything else, and just hope for the best with that riptide intercepting me. The game can really be over right here if I get unlucky, but sometimes you've just gotta roll a hard six, you know?

 

At the end of the day, this is really just a beer and pretzels game between two mates. I'm not taking it *too* seriously, but since this is kind of a re-match (last time we played the eight vs my Grey Knights was under the old codex, and I was tabled) there's the pride of Titan at stake!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Farsight 8 is a cancer upon 40k. I hope you roll 'Vortex' in your game and land it on that unit.