mika_angelus Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Hi! I'm currently painting a terminator librarian and I got a quick question. One of the shoulder pads of a librarian should be painted in chapter colors, so for a Dark Angels Terminator Librarian should it be green or bone white? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Really it would depend on the rest of the colour scheme you've chosen. If your Librarian is predominantly Bone, then I'd do the Bone pad with DW Chapter badge. If your Librarian is predominately Blue, I'd go with the Green pad and White Chapter badge. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3881333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Green with White. Librarians in older fluff were inducted into the knowledge of the Fallen early on in their training. (Since they can read minds.) But, as psykers, they never could truly join their brethren. As a result, they can never join the ranks of the 1st company. Like Azrael and all others who possess the knowledge but are not a part of the First have green pads with the white symbol. They have the right to wear the bone robes and may have the Deathwing symbol as a totem on them. They would not have the shoulder pad. Another reason is the org chart. Librarians and Techmarines are isolated front the rest of the chapter. There is one Chaplain assigned to the First and he would bear the logo as would any Apothecary in a command squad. That is my take but you are free to do as you please. My LGS has a DA army with purple accents on the plates. It is unusual but he likes them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3881355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Standard DA green with the white Chapter symbol is the traditional layout, as Librarians are not actual members of the 1st Company, but of the higher echelon ranks, and as such represent the Chapter as a whole. That's why you see the GW Termaintor Librarian in blue armor with the one DA green shoulder pad: http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99800101009_LibrarianTerminatorArmourNEW01.jpg Interrogator-Chaplains in TDA would do the same. If you don't care about it that much though, stick with "The Rule of Cool". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3881412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I did all mine termies dark green, as well as termie chaplain and termie librarian are also green Saved me a lot of thinking about heraldy :P http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282547-larhendiels-army/page-2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3881505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I did blue for my librarian, with a bone the left shoulder pad and on the right knee pad I think. His raiment is bone colored as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Bone shoulder pad if a terminator, it replaces the green. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Green with white symbol. Deathwing does not have assigned specialists... iirc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I went with a green pauldron and blue armour Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Bone shoulder pad if a terminator, it replaces the green. Not officailly. The official TDA shoulder pad colors are green with white symbol for any non-1st Company HQs, which includes all Librarians, Interrogator-chaplains, and Masters of the 3rd-10th Companies. They will wear the Chapter colors/their Company colors (both of which are the standard green with white), not the colors of a 1st Company which they are not members of (and I don't mean they are not "members of the Deathwing" organization, but of the 1st Company itself), as one does not display the heraldry of a Company one does not belong to. In the case of the 3rd-10th Company Masters, the armor itself could be bone white or DA green (kind of a cool idea actually), as we don't have any definitive examples (I mean more recent examples, not anything that goes back to Rogue Trader days or whatever ) of this so far as I know. EDIT: Speaking of which...seeing as I never did pick up a copy of SPACE HULK for the Terminators (especially the Librarian), I'll certainly be picking up one of these: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r1u-MJXmG_A/VII2W34OxbI/AAAAAAAAILA/guRoXRWbQ2A/s1600/scriptor.png http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IPfL_qhjd5E/VII2ZI95jdI/AAAAAAAAILQ/Ti3n9WbC-zM/s1600/scriptor_2.png The right should pad has a winged blood drop on it...but the blood drop will be carefully scraped away and replaced with a sword and open book(the other blood drops will be removed as well, and the combi-melta will go to my TDA Interrogator-chaplain). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 When in doubt: follow examples from the DA Codex. But actually - it's your model so paint him as you like. I'm sure anyone who has served in any military capacity will know there are always exceptions to the rules. More so in campaign situations where spare armour parts drawn from the armoury might be required in a hurry. For instance how about your Librarians' late call up for the mission. He uses his TDA from the armoury but finds the shoulderpads not yet fully functional from a pevious recent action, as a consequence uses a wrongly-painted spare set :). Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3882895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Imo, it should be that his power armor shoulder pad would be green, his terminator pad would be bone. Terminators are bone white, the blue replaces all but the pad. That said I have a terminator chaplain with a green pad (I consider it wrong) and a librarian with all bone armor. So you can do what you like. You wouldn't paint a company master in terminator armor in all green would you? My biker librarian has a black bike because all bikes belong to the Ravenwing, even though its perminatly his bike. He wears the green shoulder pad because he is not Ravenwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3883830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Imo, it should be that his power armor shoulder pad would be green, his terminator pad would be bone. Terminators are bone white, the blue replaces all but the pad. Terminators are not bone white- Deathwing Terminators are bone white, and the red wings and broken red sword symbol is the heraldry of the 1st Company and not of anybody else. Interrogator-Chaplains and Librarians are not members of the 1st Company, but of the upper echelon command structure of the Chapter, which lies outside of all of the Company structures, and so they wear the Chapter heraldry on their right shoulder pads. They certainly do not wear the heraldry of the 1st Company (bone white with red wings and broken sword), as they are not members of the 1st Company. That said I have a terminator chaplain with a green pad (I consider it wrong) and a librarian with all bone armor. Why do you consider it wrong for an HQ who is not a member of the 1st Company to not wear 1st Company heraldry? The only reason a Librarian would be in bone armor is if he appropriated a suit of 1st Company TDA...in which case it wouldn't have any Librarian heraldry on it either (i.e. no horned skull with book/sword on the shoulder pad or lightning bolt decorations anywhere), other than some scrolls/books/keys on chains. Same with an Interrogator-chaplain. Appropriation of TDA is course possible. You wouldn't paint a company master in terminator armor in all green would you? One might, but likely not, as other than for Interrogator-chaplains and Librarians, all TDA has traditionally been painted in bone white. I consider it more than just a nod to the legacy of DA TDA to keep it bone white among non-Interrogator-chaplains/Librarians, which the 3rd-10th Company Masters surely are neither of. However, that just goes for the armor, as any 3rd-10th Company Master who dons TDA very much isn't going to wear the heraldry of the 1st Company (i.e. the red wings and broken sword) either, but will instead use their own personal heraldry which incorporates elements of the heraldry of the Company that they lead. My biker librarian has a black bike because all bikes belong to the Ravenwing, even though its perminatly his bike. He wears the green shoulder pad because he is not Ravenwing. No, they do not. Ravenwing Bikes belong to the Ravenwing. What few other bikes there are belong to the general Dark Angles Armoury. The upper echelon HQ's do not need to go begging for a bike from the 2nd Company, but can acquire one from the Chapter Armoury. Librarians are not a part of the 2nd Company, and any bike permanently belonging to a Librarian would be painted in their livery color- blue, just as a bike belonging to a Chaplain or Interrogator-chaplain would be black, and a bike belonging to a Techmarine would be red. The only other color that would be acceptable under any of their classifications would be the color representative of the Chapter itself- DA green, and in all cases not a single one of them would use 2nd Company heraldry (i.e. white clawed wing clutching a sword) anywhere, as none of them are members of the 2nd Company. The only reason a Librarian or Techmarine would be riding a black bike would be if they appropriated one from the Ravenwing while on deployment, in which case they would probably just hand one over to them and not change anything on it, even the Ravenwing heraldry. This would be the case if a Chaplain or Interrogator-chaplain appropriated a bike from the Ravenwing too. All of that can happen of course. Now, we do know that Company badges are worn on the left knee pad, and that this is a standard affectation among the DA. Even still, Chaplains assigned to the various Companies would not wear Company heraldry on their shoulder pads, but could very well wear it on their left knee pad, greave, or on the outer side of the lower left leg. The only standard exceptions to any of this are Apothecaries, as they are only quasi-independent of the Companies. While they do serve in an auxiliary capacity in some cases (i.e. in the Chapter's Apothecarion), Apothecaries are still permanently attached to the Commands Squads of the various Companies, and so are quite literally members of the various Companies. As such, each one displays the heraldry of the Company each belongs to on their armor, and they either wear all white armor or they wear the armour color of their Company, but with a white helmet. Could exceptions be made for certain special individuals? Sure, but the Dark Angels do have a system. The main point is, there very much is a method to the madness, and members of a military organization do not arbitrarily use the heraldry or livery of others, but have their own assigned heraldry and livery; with any differences being beyond rare and likely only existing as a sign of some special award or honor. ...and now I need to finally go to sleep, as it took waaay too long to write that up and remove the ton of typos (I hope I got them all). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3884165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Imo, it should be that his power armor shoulder pad would be green, his terminator pad would be bone. Terminators are bone white, the blue replaces all but the pad. Terminators are not bone white- Deathwing Terminators are bone white, and the red wings and broken red sword symbol is the heraldry of the 1st Company and not of anybody else. Interrogator-Chaplains and Librarians are not members of the 1st Company, but of the upper echelon command structure of the Chapter, which lies outside of all of the Company structures, and so they wear the Chapter heraldry on their right shoulder pads. They certainly do not wear the heraldry of the 1st Company (bone white with red wings and broken sword), as they are not members of the 1st Company. Shabbadoo... You've been doing this the whole thread... Alternating between calling the Deathwing the First co and Second Company. To clarify. Shabbadoo is 100% correct, Only members currently serving in the 1st Company, "The Deathwing" will be in bone white, All others in Terminator plate will be Green shoulder pads with White icon UNLESS they have a personal Heraldry on the left pad instead. The Deathwing does not ever have any Chaplains currently serving in the company, so therefore no Chaplains will have a bone pad. Likewise, Librarians are not ever assigned to any company, they are members of the Librarium and will have green/white also. Now then, They are still your models, you paid for them, you can do what you want. I would still play against you, I would just ask why you painted the libby in bone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3884202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 [...] I would just ask why you painted the libby in bone. Err... because it looks good would be a reasonable reply :yes:. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3884223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 [...] I would just ask why you painted the libby in bone. Err... because it looks good would be a reasonable reply . Cheers I Also acceptable: "Because I like it." "I did it wrong." "I did it wrong?" "There is a fluff nazi way?" "I decided to do an alternate scheme to confuse my enemies." I mean way back when in WD, one of the studio guys painted his DA with Bone greaves and it looked good. I myself vary from the codex in my vehicle patterns: http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/Ironwing.jpg The only wrong way is to not paint at all... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3884241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The shoulder pad should be green in my opinion. You said it yourself; one shoulder pad should be in the Chapter colours. Dark Angels' Chapter colour is green. The bone white is a company colour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3884546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Shabbadoo... You've been doing this the whole thread... Alternating between calling the Deathwing the First co and Second Company. I know! I realized that last night when I posted. I've got Deathwing-Ravenwing on the brain! Thanks for the heads-up, and I think I have them all fixed now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3885075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My terminator librarian is painted in Deathwing bone with green robes. Not a spot of blue on him - he's a full member of the Deathwing! It's kind of old school, but I like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3885129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Mine is painted blue with a Bone shoulder pad since he is seconded to the DW. Everything makes sense as long as there is a reasonal explanation.. it's hard to say what is right or wrong because there are many plausible explanations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3885253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 HERETICS!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3885254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika_angelus Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Well I went with a bone shoulder pad. http://i57.tinypic.com/30m4hec.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3887236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Nice bright colours. Me gusta Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300097-terminator-librarian-livery/#findComment-3887270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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