Death company... Bolters.... and.... Jump packs!

[Theduke08]

Anyone else as excited as I am to run these relentless monsters????  I have waited forever for this option to be even remotely cost effective. 

[GrunTeufel]

I don't have the models. I have 9 regular with ccw and 5 jp death company right now. The coming 5 will be definitely jp and ccw. One day for sure.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I would wait until the codex comes out to model any new DC. their rules have varried wildy inbetween editions.

[Xenith]

Deathstorm preview shows that they are roughly the same, and have buyable weapons, as opposed to stuff like rending.

[Cronhour]

Well we've seen their stats and special rules in death storm. I love me some bolter death company in drop podsif the cost is favourable l

Jump pack troops with bolters and some power fists would be great. Rapid firing before charging in can do substantial damage.

[ElectricPaladin]

I never liked bolter death company. Death company marines are hard enough to tough it out in an extended combat, and because they're Fearless they won't leave the combat until they win or are all dead. Maximizing their number of close combat attacks in rounds 2 to N close combat make it more likely that more of them will survive to continue to contribute later and more likely that they will win the fight sooner and be able to at least tie something else up for a turn or two.

 

Good shooting before assault is more important for bully units or disruption units than it is for units who can tough it out and win extended combats. I think death company is the latter.

[Black Marshal]

I disagree I love bolter death company and have been using them since 5th. I felt the ability to rapid fire 20 bolter shots into a unit before charging was huge. Even getting 2 kills would reduce the amount of damage coming back at me. This was epically important when assaulting high initiative models. some would argue that its not needed if you use a chaplain with for the rerolls but I actually found death company too killy at that point. 90% of the time I would assault and kill everything only to be killed from shooting the next round. Using bolters and then charging with 4 attacks on the charge and not using rerolls always did enough so that I hurt the squad and finished it up next round on my opponents turn.

 

And more on point. DC with jumppacks are an excellent distraction unit. They are sufficiently scary to draw a lot of attention from the enemy allowing the rest of the army to do its job. equipping them with bolters will allow them to harass the enemy as they advance up field.

[shandwen]

I never liked bolter death company. Death company marines are hard enough to tough it out in an extended combat, and because they're Fearless they won't leave the combat until they win or are all dead. Maximizing their number of close combat attacks in rounds 2 to N close combat make it more likely that more of them will survive to continue to contribute later and more likely that they will win the fight sooner and be able to at least tie something else up for a turn or two.

 

Good shooting before assault is more important for bully units or disruption units than it is for units who can tough it out and win extended combats. I think death company is the latter.

I think the pull to use jumping bolters in it's unique. No other unit in the game has that option, and that is bloody rare for marines.

[knife&fork]

With bolters and jump packs you'd have a unit that's pretty much assault marines except better in almost every way.

 

Fast scoring, hidden PWs, capable in close combat, decent anti.infantry shooting, great mobility. The only thing against them are cost and the fact that special weapons are better in almost every way compared to the pistol versions. 

 

It will be interesting to see the equipment options in the final codex. I'm hoping for a gunslinger option myself. Extra attacks, extra shots and option for grav/plasma/flamer/melta pistol. 

[PastelAvenger]

I do like Bolter Death Compnay but I would personally have a Land Raider for them, tends to minimise the losses if they have a metal box to drive them round.

 

Still need to them some power weapons to ensure that they can run through whatever unit you point them at.

 

Fast scoring, hidden PWs, capable in close combat, decent anti.infantry shooting, great mobility. The only thing against them are cost and the fact that special weapons are better in almost every way compared to the pistol versions. 

 

 

They aren't scoring unless that's been changed in the new codex.

[ElectricPaladin]

I do like Bolter Death Compnay but I would personally have a Land Raider for them, tends to minimise the losses if they have a metal box to drive them round.

 

Still need to them some power weapons to ensure that they can run through whatever unit you point them at.

 

Fast scoring, hidden PWs, capable in close combat, decent anti.infantry shooting, great mobility. The only thing against them are cost and the fact that special weapons are better in almost every way compared to the pistol versions. 

 

They aren't scoring unless that's been changed in the new codex.

 

There's some evidence that it has been. The new profiles - at least the ones in Deathstorm - have no reference to The Black Rage as a rule, and instead have all the components (Rage, Furious Charge) as separate entries, with no reference to a rule that renders them not-scoring.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I like the bolter Death Company, though I tend to run them in a block of 20, with two or three powerfists and Lemartes.  Depending on how the unit looks in the codex, I may bring along a GK Nemesis Strike formation so I can add Draigo and 2 GK Librarians for a ton of psychic support and a beatstick to keep the chaplain from getting challenged out and killed.

[The Yncarne]

I believe that if you want to play relentless bolter marines you have an option. You just need to paint your black marines with flames instead of red crosses.

I would rather have the ability to play my army without other detachments, but I don't let it bother me anymore.

[d@n]

It's more the number of power fists you have in a unit that wins combat with death company, rather then if they have bolters or an extra cc . attack. I would say due to over watch maybe bolters would be better.

[Gaweda]

I have 10 without bolters. With my new 10 from the 2 campaign box sets, I am definitely doing bolters. I've magnetized them in case I dislike it, but I'm excited to try them with jump packs, deepstriking. I'm a little tired of flying them in my stormraven, and am looking forward to switching up tactics. I think I'd be even more excited if I could run multpile DC squads without Astorath though.

[Remtek]

Can't see many situations where bolters are better. When charging it's 10 more str 5 attacks with ccw, when getting charged it's usually 15-30 extra str 4 attacks on avg (multiple close combat rounds). 10 more str 4 attacks is marginal with bolters, same can be said about overwatch. Bolter's only seem to be worth it vs 5+ save unit's which, but i struggle more vs other lists.

[Gaweda]

Having a 24" range to kill stuff after wiping out the first unit I point them at is a positive for me. With my bolt pistol / chainsword squad, I point them at a target, kill it, then usually spend a turn moving them and doing nothing else since my opponent - if he can't shoot them to death - wisely moves other things away.

[Theduke08]

My question is what are you guys charging that you need 40 str 5 attacks to put down? I mean throw in a PF and there are very few units out there that are going to be left standing.

[Black Marshal]

By the math it is same amount of kills. The following math is based on the new WS4 of the death company.

 

Rapid Fire with 10 Bolters into MEQ 2.2 kills, Charging with 40 St 5 attacks 4.4 kills, total killed 6.6.

Firing 10 Bolt pistols into MEQ 1.1 kills, Charging with 50 st 5 attacks 5.5 kills, total kills 6.6.

 

The difference is an additional model was removed with the bolters before they can overwatch or swing back at you so you survive more often. This tactic is not for killing more its for being killed less.

[Father Mapple]

Also charge ranges are random, but rapid firing of bolters never had it's range randomly determined. And no close combat weapons, apart from power weapons, have a AP rating.

[knife&fork]

On the other hand you are making a unit good at close combat a lot worse for the sake of a few bolter shots. 

 

Maybe 40 S5 attacks are plenty (often it's not enough, even with WS5 and rerolls) but nothing guarantees that you'll always be at full strength in every combat. On the contrary it should be quite rare to see more than one phase with full numbers, even less so without an assault vehicle. 

[appiah4]

10 Bolters, 2 Power Fists, 1 Tycho, 1 Chaplain with Power Fist, 1 Land Raider Redeemer.

 

Never fails.

[d@n]

If they become scoring again then those bolters are going to me much more valuable.

[Remtek]

By the math it is same amount of kills. The following math is based on the new WS4 of the death company.

 

Rapid Fire with 10 Bolters into MEQ 2.2 kills, Charging with 40 St 5 attacks 4.4 kills, total killed 6.6.

Firing 10 Bolt pistols into MEQ 1.1 kills, Charging with 50 st 5 attacks 5.5 kills, total kills 6.6.

 

The difference is an additional model was removed with the bolters before they can overwatch or swing back at you so you survive more often. This tactic is not for killing more its for being killed less.

 

One or two models hitting back won't help that much in terms of survivability, unless special weapons are in front. I think the reduction in charge distance is more of a risk. If you manage to charge something with DC it's usually dead. When getting assaulted having 3 attacks per model really helps as you will probably go several combat rounds. And if running with a Reclu you get reroll to wounds (though it's not unlikely they will change that to only reroll hits)

[SonOfThunder]

Often when im about to assault something with any unit i don't shoot at all if the charge distance is already tight. So many bolter shots seem to compromise assault distance too much...but for footsloggers disembarking i see the benefits, since you can minimize distance risks when you disembark, and afterwards the unit can still contribute even with reduced mobility.