Quozzo Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 So if you combine the BA detachment with the NSFD then any GK units deepstriking within two homers can deepstrike, run, shoot and assault in the same turn? I knew there was a reason I have both these armies :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's rediculous, all my lists will have it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I believe the DSing element has to be from the Blood Angels faction in order to benefit from the "Deep Strike, then Charge the same turn" special rule granted by this formation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I believe the DSing element has to be from the Blood Angels faction in order to benefit from the "Deep Strike, then Charge the same turn" special rule granted by this formation   Which it will be, provided at least one model is from the Blood Angels faction; ie the Angel Priest attached to some GKT's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I believe the DSing element has to be from the Blood Angels faction in order to benefit from the "Deep Strike, then Charge the same turn" special rule granted by this formation I agree. I don't see how the charge from deepstriking rule confers to anything that's not a Blood Angel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014  I believe the DSing element has to be from the Blood Angels faction in order to benefit from the "Deep Strike, then Charge the same turn" special rule granted by this formation   Which it will be, provided at least one model is from the Blood Angels faction; ie the Angel Priest attached to some GKT's. It doesn't work that way unless SPECIFICALLY stated. Having someone in artifacer armour amongst a squad of Terminators doesn't allow that unit to sweeping advance for example. You're basically arguing that an army special rule confers, which it doesn't. Having an Iron Hands character with some white scars doesn't give them a 6+ fnp, and it doesn't give him skilled rider.  The gk would simply prevent the ba ic from being able to charge from the deepstrike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I agree. I don't see how the charge from deepstriking rule confers to anything that's not a Blood Angel.  Can you quote the triple Raven formation rules please? I don't have access to them, so I'm only working off what you and others have said about it. If you could supply the exact wording, I'll explain why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 3 Ravens, 3 tac squads inside each with teleporter homer. Â Deepstriking Blood Angels within 6" of Raven allows them to charge same turn. Â Â This formation is rubbish as the Raven has to be on the table turn before deepstrikers to allow no scatter from Teleporter homers, so unless you run Multicad with TWO Skyshield landing pads it really isn't worth the 1000ish points!! Â I really don't get the excitement. I'd rather ally in some Grav Centurions and have Draigo teleport them around! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yeah its janky but potentially hilarious in Apocalypse or 2k+ games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh, in apoc it would be fantastic. You'd have Dante charging in turn 1 :-D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3893841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 This formation is rubbish as the Raven has to be on the table turn before deepstrikers to allow no scatter from Teleporter homers, so unless you run Multicad with TWO Skyshield landing pads it really isn't worth the 1000ish points!! Â I really don't get the excitement. I'd rather ally in some Grav Centurions and have Draigo teleport them around! Â It's 12 inches from the units with teleport homers the "no scatter" is from the formation rules, not from the teleport homer itself, so the normal "must be on the board at the start of the turn" rule doesn't apply. It does only apply to deep striking units with the BA faction though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3894041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The formation is decent. Consider you can fit 3 ravens + 30 tacs, 2-3 units of DC and still have room for several drop pods which serve multiple purposes in this army beyond the norm.  It is janky though and I don't like it personally, if for no other reason than the 3 turn 1 flyers and the high chances of it auto losing to bad rolls or hard counters like tau or even assassins can put down. It needs too many other additions to mitigate these. i.e. it smacks of the adamantine lance formation in terms of win big lose big.  I also think that assaulting from reserves in this formations instance is getting pretty over hyped. I've been playing against the old BA vanguard up until recently and while they were good and sometimes obnoxious they were hardly 'no brainer' good. Overwatch, bad scatter, lack of fleet all contribute. I think people will realize this after a few games because outside of the ravens the list lacks substance.  Not saying the formation is unusable, in fact quite the opposite. I just don't think its as good as people are thinking it will be.  Just my initial impressions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3894052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I thought the new BA codex lost the ability to charge after DS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3894095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 They did, but the rules for the formation we're discussing specifically allow it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3894138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hi guys, i dont think this has been brought up on the thread yet but wanted your opinions. I have 3 Drop pods in my list but ideally would like all three to come down turn one. So if i have a squad of GK from a NSF in a BA drop pod can i choose to roll a 3+ to have then deploy using that rule allowing the other two to come on as part of the normal DP rules? Â The reason i ask is that the rites of teleportation say that "any unit in DS reserve can roll from turn one....". As the purifiers are in the DP theyre in DS reserve..... Â Thoughts.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3896395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Drop pod rule over rides when saying half must come on turn one other half must come on turn 2. And the drop pod is not part of the faction just the purifiers. No dice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3896459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hi guys, i dont think this has been brought up on the thread yet but wanted your opinions. I have 3 Drop pods in my list but ideally would like all three to come down turn one. So if i have a squad of GK from a NSF in a BA drop pod can i choose to roll a 3+ to have then deploy using that rule allowing the other two to come on as part of the normal DP rules? The reason i ask is that the rites of teleportation say that "any unit in DS reserve can roll from turn one....". As the purifiers are in the DP theyre in DS reserve.....  Thoughts....  Yeah, that's how it works. 'Rites' checks if a Grey Knight unit is Deepstriking. The Purifiers are Deepstriking, so the third Pod comes in Turn 1 if you roll a 3+ for it. The other two Pods come in on Turn 1 anyway because of the Drop Pod Assault rules making half (rounding up) come on automatically. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3896570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 But in that case it's the pod deepstriking not the squad... so it's a BA unit deepstriking and the GK unit is embarked in a transport which is forced to disembark from a cruiseing speed vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3896656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 The reason i ask is that the rites of teleportation say that "any unit in DS reserve can roll from turn one....". As the purifiers are in the DP theyre in DS reserve.....  Thoughts.... Sure it works. If Rites can be transferred to an allied unit it can be transferred to an allied drop pod. All drop pods can arrive turn 1 now! hooray beer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3896946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Is not a question of transference, its a question permissions. Is the units in a NSF and Deep Strike? If so, the unit has Rites, and can roll to enter on turn 1. Doesn't matter what unit is embarked on, or what other models the unit is attached to, the unit has Rites, and Rites allows the units to roll to enter on turn 1. Per the Combined Units rules, only one die roll is used for an entire combined units, including all ICs and vehicles. In the cad of NSF Purifiers in allied Pod Pods, Rites becomes available to the Combined unit due to the wording of Combined Units, Battle Brother Allies, and Rites of Teleportation. Â SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3897153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 If something like infiltrate doesn't transfer to anything past the core unit one can argue these rights won't transfer over to the drop pod... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3897344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 If something like infiltrate doesn't transfer to anything past the core unit one can argue these rights won't transfer over to the drop pod... The wording of reserve rolls is pretty clear, choose which unit/model to roll for and then they all must arrive together if the roll was made. No rules transfer as such, it is just that units put together in reserves must arrive together . The wording of infiltrate is different so it works differently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3897355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm going to chime in and say that a GK IC attached to a SM unit doesn't lose Rites, but since the SM unit cannot DS turn 1 then the IC can either detach and use Rites (as it doesnt lose it) or come on turn 2 with the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3897969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The Ravens still need to be there, so you still need Skyshield landing pads to make any of this work turn 1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3897978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 The Ravens still need to be there, so you still need Skyshield landing pads to make any of this work turn 1 They can arrive turn one, so that's not a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300229-new-ba-as-allies/page/3/#findComment-3898024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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