New BA as allies

[Gentlemanloser]

1: Roll reserves.  Reroll failed Stormravens.

 

2: Get all three stormravens coming in turn 1 (one roll for whole formation)

 

3: Get some NSF units, with attached Bangel ICs coming in turn 1 as well.

 

4: Bring SR in.  Shadowed Skies the Tacs (unless you want to open a can of worms about being within 12" of a Tac that's embarked...)

 

5: Bring in the NSF units within 12" of 2+ Tac squads (As due to the formation the TH don't have to be on the table, as you don't use the TH rules...)

 

6: Run, Shoot, Charge the NSF squad.

 

 

All this works until GW clarify;

 

A) What faction a mixed unit belongs to

 

B )How ICs *actually* work

[Brom MKIV]

Anyone else here attend or planning to attend BAO/LVO? Curious because their FAQ update specifically addresses NSF command benefits.

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByVzaY23LOX-S3lSVjM3R2t2cUE/edit?pli=1

[jeffersonian000]

Looks like BAO/LVO ruled the same way we did, for the most part. I can see why they ruled differently in the few odd cases, to balance game play.

 

SJ

[Landrick]

could you quote it? the pdf only loads the first 5 pages for me for some reason

[Quozzo]

A Grey Knight unit from the Nemesis Strike Force (NSF) Detachment still benefits from the Rites of Teleportation Command Benefit if an Independent Character from another Detachment is joined to them. An Independent Character from the NSF Detachment joined to a unit from another Detachment does not benefit from Rites of Teleportation.

Seems to be the way that most would rule it.

[Landrick]

so in this light, I could drop pod mephiston and 10 purifiers turn 1!

[Gentlemanloser]

No ruling on Drop Pods with embarked GK units...

[Zeratul29]

Well aren't the purifiers still counting as Deepstriking? If so, Then we're good

[Landrick]

Well aren't the purifiers still counting as Deepstriking? If so, Then we're good

This is my understanding as well

[Reclusiarch Darius]

A Grey Knight unit from the Nemesis Strike Force (NSF) Detachment still benefits from the Rites of Teleportation Command Benefit if an Independent Character from another Detachment is joined to them. An Independent Character from the NSF Detachment joined to a unit from another Detachment does not benefit from Rites of Teleportation.

 

The problem is it makes no sense. What magically allows one combo to work, but the other not? It's purely by diktat. I guess its relevant if you play in that tourney, but like most tourney-specific rulings, it means nothing without GW making it law. 

 

No ruling on Drop Pods with embarked GK units...

 

 

Which shows how far behind the times those tourney organisers are. We've been talking about Allied pods since Space Wolves were released. Which makes me even less inclined to accept their completely arbitrary ruling on the matter. 

 

I also really dislike their stupid "Mastery level = powers you can cast per phase" ruling. That basically ruins all of our units in melee, but it doesn't do anything to the most obnoxious psykers in the game (Prince/Herald Mastery 3's, Eldar Farseers, Tiggy, Loth etc). Not to mention the Psychic phase rules don't support that interpretation at all. 

[Zeratul29]

RD, my entire city of the opinion that mastery level does not= number of powers you can cast, we decided it was as many powers as the psyker knows as indicated in the Rule book. Mastery level only determines how many powers you know, not use.

[Landrick]

RD, my entire city of the opinion that mastery level does not= number of powers you can cast, we decided it was as many powers as the psyker knows as indicated in the Rule book. Mastery level only determines how many powers you know, not use.

this, 100%

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 RD, my entire city of the opinion that mastery level does not= number of powers you can cast, we decided it was as many powers as the psyker knows as indicated in the Rule book. Mastery level only determines how many powers you know, not use. 

 

Yeah I agree, I'm pointing out the Bay Area Open tourney FAQ has the complete opposite opinion. 

[jeffersonian000]

I noticed that, too. One of the few rulings that's backward to the rest of the communities, yet has a sense of balancing about it.

 

SJ

[Grand Master Caloth]

My area plays it as ML=casting limit. And it's one I agree with

[Zeratul29]

Though I do think BAO was ok with the LoW ruling. But I think they're being overly scared of D weapons personally.

 

Also, I don't like the rediculous nerf, I think LVO or adepticon did to Invisibiltiy. Made that power useless.

[Grand Master Caloth]

What was the nerf?

[Zeratul29]

Made it to where blasts could hit invisible units counting as bs 1.... And made it 5's to hit them in close combat. Completely made that power worthless.

[Grand Master Caloth]

Um.... how do they change the ruling on a spell that describes its effects clearly and concisely?

[Quozzo]

 

A Grey Knight unit from the Nemesis Strike Force (NSF) Detachment still benefits from the Rites of Teleportation Command Benefit if an Independent Character from another Detachment is joined to them. An Independent Character from the NSF Detachment joined to a unit from another Detachment does not benefit from Rites of Teleportation.

The problem is it makes no sense. What magically allows one combo to work, but the other not? It's purely by diktat. I guess its relevant if you play in that tourney, but like most tourney-specific rulings, it means nothing without GW making it law.

 

It may not be an official ruling from GW, but I believe that TO try to sway rules in favour of RAI not RAW. I still maintain their ruling is RAW.

 

 

No ruling on Drop Pods with embarked GK units...

Which shows how far behind the times those tourney organisers are. We've been talking about Allied pods since Space Wolves were released. Which makes me even less inclined to accept their completely arbitrary ruling on the matter. 

 

I also really dislike their stupid "Mastery level = powers you can cast per phase" ruling. That basically ruins all of our units in melee, but it doesn't do anything to the most obnoxious psykers in the game (Prince/Herald Mastery 3's, Eldar Farseers, Tiggy, Loth etc). Not to mention the Psychic phase rules don't support that interpretation at all.

 

I actually thought that the Mastery level did determine the number of powers a psyker can use, but iirc someone post a quote from FW about a rules errata due to the rules not being compatable in 7th and it mentioned that the number of powers are not determined by the psykers mastery level. Whether it was actually an official answer i cant say, nor can i remember who post or when.

[Brom MKIV]

Those rules are in effect for LVO 2015. Its hard to say how much of an impact the ruling will have honestly. Most targets of invis are highly durable to begin with, not to mention obnoxious, and they usually have redundancies in place as well. Players have been beating stars before this change, including reecius. I think this is more about keeping it fun for everyone at the event.. something which doesn't always go with invisible units. Just my take.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I noticed that, too. One of the few rulings that's backward to the rest of the communities, yet has a sense of balancing about it.

 

No, it completely contradicts the rules as written, and doesn't make sense. It doesn't balance anything at all, it just makes Mastery 1's functionally useless. Mastery 2's and 3's literally don't care, they can still cast all but one of their powers. 

 

Made it to where blasts could hit invisible units counting as bs 1.... And made it 5's to hit them in close combat. Completely made that power worthless. 

 

 

Nah I think that's actually balanced. Blasts not being able to hit an Invis unit is dumb as hell. Making it only -1 to the scatter is fine, it represents the inaccurate bombardment by such weapons. Melee literally doesn't matter, Invis is broken because of its effects during the enemy Shooting phase. 

 

Um.... how do they change the ruling on a spell that describes its effects clearly and concisely? 

 

 

It's par for course dude. Tourneys fiddle with the rules all the time. Sometimes they outright ban certain units or characters (Loth for example), sometimes they alter the wording of a rule or ability. 

It may not be an official ruling from GW, but I believe that TO try to sway rules in favour of RAI not RAW. I still maintain their ruling is RAW.

 

 

The problem with RAI is that you're largely superimposing your own opinion of how a rule should work, versus what the rule actually states. I'll be the first to say GW has a real problem with being concise, clear and unambiguous with their rules writing. But they've gotten better, and the 'Mastery = casting limit' opinion is based solely off an interpretation. It has no precedent, and if that definition became more widespread Mastery 1's would be pointless. If GW decide to FAQ it to be that, I'll accept it (I'll hate it but I'll live with it). Until an FAQ though, it's a point of contention. 

I actually thought that the Mastery level did determine the number of powers a psyker can use, but iirc someone post a quote from FW about a rules errata due to the rules not being compatable in 7th and it mentioned that the number of powers are not determined by the psykers mastery level. Whether it was actually an official answer i cant say, nor can i remember who post or when

 

That may be so, but Forge World doesn't write errata for the main rules, they write errata for their own variant systems and units/armies. I'm asking people to just refer to the printed words in the rulebook. It's clear as day that Mastery is used for psychic power and warp charge generation, and for dispel purposes. It doesn't function as a limit on a psyker's output, it simply states how many powers they can access, their own addition to the charge pool, and how well they dispel in the enemy Psychic phase. 

Those rules are in effect for LVO 2015. Its hard to say how much of an impact the ruling will have honestly. Most targets of invis are highly durable to begin with, not to mention obnoxious, and they usually have redundancies in place as well. Players have been beating stars before this change, including reecius. I think this is more about keeping it fun for everyone at the event.. something which doesn't always go with invisible units. Just my take. 

 

I think Seer Council will be fine with that nerf. They're still stupidly hard to kill at range (they layer 'Invis' with cover save stacking). 

[Brom MKIV]

Pretty much agree with everything you said RD.

 

Thats why I'm always preaching local custom. Too many descrepancies across the spectrum. Its like politics.. your really just shooting for 60% approval when it comes to rulings Lol. Anyone who travels to different shops, groups, tourneys etc knows what I'm talking about.

 

Basically become familiar with the local rules and abide. On the bright side though its also one contributor to why we see any diversity at all across the different tournaments. Interpretation/faq/errata. Each create their own meta.. to an extent.

 

Again I really don't see the change to invis as game breaking for the armies built to abuse it. Draigo cents doesn't care about 4 hits per blast stick, or about getting hit on 5s in combat. Hounds and seerstar really don't either. Their huge offensive output didn't diminish. The nerf to number of powers they can manifest is much worse IMO (and unnecessary but dems da breaks). The 'community' calls for gaming reform and someone stepped up.

[jay170788]

I really want to agree that my termies can cast hammerhand and force but the phrase in te BRB, "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level".

 

How are you guys suggesting a way round this?

[Grand Master Caloth]

Jay, it's been a huge fight both ways, let's not repeat it all here in this thread. If you do a search, you will find near a dozen threads in this forum alone that spells out everyone's arguments. Not trying to be a jerk, please don't think that, just trying to prevent this thread from rolling over into the same old fight