Axagoras Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Real quick question here, if I take a reaver titan as a LOW in my iron hands detachment can i now buy it legacies of glory from ia 2v2?I ask because it says I can purchase legacies for any vehicle in a space marines army, and since a reaver titan is a lord of war in the detachment I assume that fills the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 In theory, yes. In practice, no. Every single Legacy of Glory states that it applies to either a "Space Marine vehicle", a "Space Marine tank", or a specific unit type. A Reaver Titan is not a "Space Marine vehicle", even if it's in a Space Marine army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Is there a definition for space marine vehicle? I'm pretty sure no vehicles in C:SM are classified space marine vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Usually it is defined as what is in the codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Do they actually spell that out anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 well the reaver titan gets IWND because its in a iron hands detachment because the iron hands CT says that all vehicles in a iron hands detachment get iwnd, a lord of war is a vehicle in a iron hands detachment and thus gets IWND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 well the reaver titan gets IWND because its in a iron hands detachment because the iron hands CT says that all vehicles in a iron hands detachment get iwnd, a lord of war is a vehicle in a iron hands detachment and thus gets IWND That is both correct and quite legal. Good Luck with that one game you get, though. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 iwnd on a titan isnt that big of a issue, its either killed in 1-2 turns or it wont be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 iwnd on a titan isnt that big of a issue, its either killed in 1-2 turns or it wont be killed.It's the "won't be killed" part that turns people away, especially if the Reaver is standing between 3 Projected Void Shield Generators was 3 shields each. Just say'n. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 thats not the iwnd... thats the 3 void sheilds, the 4++ save and the 18 hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 thats not the iwnd... thats the 3 void sheilds, the 4++ save and the 18 hp ? SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 One would assume that, by Space Marine Vehicle (which is a requirement of all the Legacies), they mean any vehicle noted in an Space Marine Codex, or in the Vehicle Summary on page 247 of IA Vol 2 (2nd edition). Now RAW is somewhat lacking on this issue, due to GW (Forgeworld) not specifically defining what is (and is not) a Space Marine Vehicle. Which they should have done in the introduction to the Legacies section. So what we have to go on are the various Space Marine Codices and the vehicle summary list of IA Vol 2 (2nd edition). The Reaver Titan is not listed in any such Space Marine Vehicles summary. Forgeworld do list the Reaver as being a "Forces of the Imperium" unit in the Escalation document in their downloads section, but then specify which armies it can join as a Lord of War. It's the only document I can find that does define (in words) the faction of the Titans. So I'd say that Titans aren't Space Marine Vehicles, so can't take Legacies that are only available to Space Marine Vehicles. As a point of note, can this be kept to the rule(s) in question, rather than going off on a tangent. A debate concerning just how pungent a Reaver Titan in an Iron Hands army might be, is not a rule issue, it's a cheese issue, and has no place in the OR. Dam13n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 @Dam13n It does all come down to that line, what is a space marine vehicle. Because normally it is cut and dry because any vehicle in a space marine army is a space marine vehicle. The issue then comes up when you are taking a lord of war, not from a marine book but in a marine detachment. It gets the benefit from the detachment and is now a "vehicle" in a "space marine army" but there unfortunately is no rock solid RAW answer so I will leave it up to the apoc host, or drop the issue. But my reaver will be getting it will not die because somehow just being in the presence of perfection (bionics) the titan will strive it fix its self to uphold the honor of the chapter or w/e lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Data sheets are also supposed to have their "faction" declared at the top of their information along with their Role. We see some of that in the Codex when it shows the Chapter's symbol for units/models with dedicated Chapter Tactics. Unfortunately, that really doesn't count for much prior to mid-6th, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Units in a single detachment are required to be of the same faction. If you can take a Reaver Titan as a LoW slot in an Iron Hands detachment, that Reaver Titan *has to* be a Faction: Space Marine unit. Unless there's some obscure IA rule that breaks this. If a Reaver Titan is faction: Space Marines, it would somewhat imply it's a Space Marine Vehicle. Total oversight from lax rules, but hey, have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Units in a single detachment are required to be of the same faction. If you can take a Reaver Titan as a LoW slot in an Iron Hands detachment, that Reaver Titan *has to* be a Faction: Space Marine unit. Nope, no such rule. Individual Detachments have different restrictions, listed under "Restrictions". For CAD & AD those restrictions are "must have the same Faction (or have no Faction)". The Reaver Titan currently has no faction ("Armies of the Imperium" isn't a Faction, it's a line on the Allies table), and won't have one unless and until GW tell us what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Ah ha! Here I am in my own world where every unit (bar fortifications) have a Faction. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Units in a single detachment are required to be of the same faction. If you can take a Reaver Titan as a LoW slot in an Iron Hands detachment, that Reaver Titan *has to* be a Faction: Space Marine unit. Nope, no such rule. Individual Detachments have different restrictions, listed under "Restrictions". For CAD & AD those restrictions are "must have the same Faction (or have no Faction)". The Reaver Titan currently has no faction ("Armies of the Imperium" isn't a Faction, it's a line on the Allies table), and won't have one unless and until GW tell us what it is. Wouldn't this mean it is in fact not possible to take a reaver titan in CAD or AD? I know forgeworld rules pdf says "Forces of the Imperium" can take them as a LoW, but that isn't same thing (Ie, the army type can take one, but not in a CAD or AD, meaning there's a need for a different type of detachment with a LoW-slot and doesn't have the same restrictions as CAD and AD (doesn't actually exist does it?) for you to actually take one. But yes, this whole mess is clearly a rules oversight. Just wondering what RAW would be precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Wouldn't this mean it is in fact not possible to take a reaver titan in CAD or AD? No, it has no Faction and it's a Lord of War. You can put any unit that has no Faction in a CAD regardless of what occupies the other slots. Rule satisfied. Ideally they'd update those units with a proper Faction, explicitly part of the Armies of the Imperium, but it works as-is. The Forge World Lords of War PDF was written for 6th edition and really isn't much help for anything any more. Just another of the many things we're still waiting for Forge World to FAQ for 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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