Blood Angel Terminators (Lightning Claws)

[L30n1d4s]

With Furious Charge appearing to be the BA default "Chapter Tactic" and +1 Initiative available readily via formations and/or Corbulo, I think we might see a comeback in the usage of Blood Angel Lightning Claw Terminators.

 

With an attached Sang Priest and +1I from Detachment special rules, BA Lightning Claw Terminators each have 4 x S5 AP3 Shred attacks on the charge, all at WS5 and I5. On top of that, they have the normal benefits of TDA survivability (2+/5++) and built in FNP from the Sang Priest.

 

Against a normal MEQ statline, each Terminator has 4 attacks, 2.66 hits, 2.37 wounds, all striking at AP3 and before most MEQs can swing back.

 

I have some very nice Angels Sanguine Assault Terminators (both LC and TH/SS types) and I think I may be breaking them out here in the near future.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I don't see a reason for their come back, they are slower and more costly version of Sanguinary guard, if anything I think we will see them less now.

This sir is the era of the jump pack. ;)

[JamesI]

This sir is the era of the jump pack.

I am so stealing this quote for my signature.

[L30n1d4s]

I do not disagree with you about the utility of Jumpacks, especially now that Sanguinary Guard have come down in points cost.

 

That said, Terminator armor combined with FNP is still some of the most survivable non-character units in the game and since everything can hold objectives now, that makes BA Terminators with FNP even more valuable.

 

Regarding mobility, while not as "point and shoot" to use as Jump Pack squads with their 12" move, there are still LOTs of ways to get BA Terminators quickly into the figth outside of the traditional Land Raider or footslog options:

 

-Ride a Fast Attack Drop Pod for turn 1 arrival and no mishap danger

-Use a Warlord with the Strategic Trait that allows infiltration of himself and 3 infantry units to get Terminators within 18" during deployment (BA have a relic that gives them an extra roll on the Strategic Table; combine with Rerolls from CAD rules and you have a good shot at this)

-Use the "slingshot" method of diesmbarking the Terminators from a building Escape Hatch turn 1, then run, getting them 19-24" accross the board in a single "bound"

-Use Librarian with Gates of Infinity (Sanctic), allied Librarian with Leviation (Telekinesis), or BA Librarian with Wings of Sanguinus to substantially up the Terminator foot slogging mobility each turn

-Transport Terminators in a Stormraven or allied flyer (i.e. SW Storm Wolf or AM Valkyrie) or even a Forge World flyer (i.e. Storm Eagle, Caestus Assault Ram, etc.)

-Deep Strike in the old fashioned way, using Inquistors with Servo-Skulls or allied Teleporter Homers/Locator Beacons to mitigate scatter

[Duke Danse Macabre]

This sir is the era of the jump pack.

I am so stealing this quote for my signature.

Now thats a quote I can get behind. lol ;)

Terminators are the most survivable but next to Hammernators lightning claws just lack the fame finesse. (Can I even say that with a giant hammer?)

But no, the load outs for the Sanguinary Guard ones are much better these days as the weapons upgrades are so cheap and the Terminators are not quite as good as the Priests can no longer take TA... Sad times.

Not to say i still won't run them together however.

[ElectricPaladin]

I agree that the new codex certainly makes them more compelling. Everything you have listed - Strength 5, Initiative 5, WS 5 - will help them. The question is, does it make the sufficiently compelling that we will see them on the table?

 

I don't know. But I do know that I am getting the new Blood Angels terminator kit, and I will be assembling them as clawminators... my first set.

 

Now, one thing that does seem interesting is the idea of mixing and matching your terminators, perhaps leaving the sergeant with claws and giving hammers to the rest?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Terminators can be pretty good add a priest preferably corbulo and a xenos inquisitor with rad grenades and then put them in a land raider. Oh sorry Mr. Carnifex I'm hitting you on threes wounding on threes and ignoring your armor. Oh and I do this before you strike at all. Though I do agree that sanguinary guard and death company are probably better.

[JamesI]

 Though I do agree that sanguinary guard and death company are probably better.

This is terminators problem.  They improved with the new codex, but DC and SG are still better.

[Firepower]

Yeah, I have to agree with others here that the Terminators are once again relegated to the darker corner of the always competitive Elites slot.

[knife&fork]

Why is everyone treating this in such a black white manner? 

Lightning claws are traded for hammers on a model basis. 

 

There's always been a case for putting claws on the sergeant, and it's a lot stronger now with the boosted stats.

Squads completely using lightning claws, probably no. A model or two in a unit of hammernators, why not? Decreasing return attacks is critical and S5 with shread has a fair chance of wounding anything but the toughest monstrous creature at I5.

 

 

I think sanguinary guard still seem pretty bad. Will give them a few games but they retain much of the same problems they used to have. Cost wasn't the only issue. 

[appiah4]

If I were doing an Assault Terminator squad, I'd probably side with k&f; I'd model it like this: 3xLCs, 1xTHSS, 1xTHCompanyBanner.  A mix of both is a great deal in this edition, and in a LR they are quite good.  Sanguinary Guard are not an auto-include IMO; they don't fit all that well in lists that don't focus on Dante or other jump troops.

[Lord Commander Scrymgeour]

thanksfully my regular (hah!) opponents are pretty cool guys, so won't have a problem with me fielding my TDA priest anyway (as long as i pay the relevant points). I think I'll have to get a squad of these new bad boys and give it a go. Snik snik snik

[appiah4]

thanksfully my regular (hah!) opponents are pretty cool guys, so won't have a problem with me fielding my TDA priest anyway (as long as i pay the relevant points). I think I'll have to get a squad of these new bad boys and give it a go. Snik snik snik

 

I believe the lack of a Terminator Armor on the priest was intentional.. While not game breaking, 2+/5++ save on a unit that gives itself 3++ FNP and +1WS, has +1I +1S on the attack is just way too hard to kill.  They kind of learned their lesson with Corbulo in the 5th Ed codex - That guy was impossible to kill, and impossible to kill ICs get really frustrating.

[Jolemai]

 

 

thanksfully my regular (hah!) opponents are pretty cool guys, so won't have a problem with me fielding my TDA priest anyway (as long as i pay the relevant points). I think I'll have to get a squad of these new bad boys and give it a go. Snik snik snik

I believe the lack of a Terminator Armor on the priest was intentional.. While not game breaking, 2+/5++ save on a unit that gives itself 3++ FNP and +1WS, has +1I +1S on the attack is just way too hard to kill. They kind of learned their lesson with Corbulo in the 5th Ed codex - That guy was impossible to kill, and impossible to kill ICs get really frustrating.

Trying to recall a game of mine when he survived... :p

[d@n]

i dont think people realise just how nasty s5 i5 fnp lighting claw terminator are. 

[Bartali]

i dont think people realise just how nasty s5 i5 fnp lighting claw terminator are. 

 

Speed has always been a problem, and they only get that S5 I5 on the charge. You can put them in a Raider or Stormraven, but then you're paying 200pts+ for a delivery mechaninsm when things like DC or Thunderwolves have that built in.

[d@n]

A land raider is a good investment in itself though as a bullet magnet. Plus it ads vital anti tank , that I feel will be lacking in the new codex

[Bartali]

Regardless of the value of Land Raiders ( I don't think they're worth the points, despite owning three). They're flawed as a transport option compared to the always on movement of proper assault units.

 

I don't think something is a true Assault unit unless it's got a base 12" move.

[Joasht]

I asked a similar question just recently.

I suspect having one or two LC Terminators in a squad isn't a bad idea, but I'm not convinced they are better than SG if taken en masse. Granted, a twin LC Terminator would have 1 extra attack over a SG and would trade Master crafted for Shred, but SG are nearly 20% cheaper and bring their own mobility.

 

All that said, even just two LC Terminators on the charge is a horrifying sight for most things that don't have a 2+ save. I used to run twin LC's back in 3rd and 4th (when Storm Shields were rubbish), and they always performed admirably.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I sstill say Thunder Hammer SS are the best load out for them, their may be use for the Sargent having claws or one or two of the other lads instead but by no means should it be the unit norm.

Besides I just see them as wasted points next to Sanguniary Guard due to their lack of speed.

 

If you have ever seen a death wing army try and case an eldar army around the board you will understand exactly what I mean. :P

 

A unit of 5 with a Priest in a SR is as much as I am willing to commit as a second wind Hammer Assualt for that troublesome unit that just refuses to die.