Organisation in BA codex and what could happen to DA codex

[Bryan Blaire]

The "supplement" for the BA 'Dex is somewhat in the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus books (at least that seems to be how they somewhat see it):

The 152-page campaign book includes:

- the story of the final acts of war in the Cryptus System featuring the combined forces of the Blood Angels, Adepta Sororitas, Astra Militarum, and the Flesh Tearers versus the Tyranids of Hive Fleet Leviathan

- an explanation of how the Necrons of Cryptus awoke to lend their aid to the beleaguered world along with the fleet of Anrakyr the Traveller

- example armies that took part in the climax of the campaign

- background of the heroes and famous regiments of the campaign

- stunning new artwork that brings the background to life and illustrates the regions of space around Cryptus

 

The 64-page rulebook includes:

- 8 new missions based on the events of the narrative book.

- 18 new datasheets for the Blood Angels 1st and 2nd Companies, Flesh Tearers, and the Necrons of the Mephrit Dynasty. That’s the equivalent of four Codex Supplements in one book!

- new warlord traits, relics and force organisation charts for all four armies

It doesn't really matter how they put the supplementary material out there, as long as it is out there. Seems like GW is still exploring different options for supplying this material. Then again, I guess we could still see a BA supplement, but it seems unlikely that it will be a part of the BA themselves or the Flesh Tearers.

 

It's possible that we could see something like this for the DA 'Dex, possibly even a Codex update for 7th this way (although I think that's unlikely), where we could see some of the successor material fleshed out.

[Master Sheol]

The supplement for BA is in a limited run campaign book while all the other codices get their supplements in books that are always available???

Pathetic as always...

 

However i dont want a supplement if my codex will be poor written like usual... I want first a good codex and i can live without supplements and/or limited run campaign books...

[Lucien Eilam]

The hardback is limited. The softback doesn't appear to be, and the digital editions obviously aren't.

[Bryan Blaire]

I want first a good codex

Well, there we are at the mercy of the GW Dev team. We will get what we get.

 

i can live without supplements and/or limited run campaign books...

That's a call each person has to make based on what they want to do with the army. Truthfully, you could always run home-developed rules, etc., if you really wanted, there is absolutely nothing preventing this. If you want to stick within the rules of the 40K book as written, you could also always play Unbound and set up your army any way you want, really.

 

However, as Lucien pointed out, the limited run stuff isn't the only way to get the material.

 

Now, for an idea of what might be in some type of these supplements: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300438-exterminatus-details/

[Master Sheol]

yes... i saw that genius that wrote the 1st BA company gave access to unlimited elite slots to represent the first company and then made this stupid restriction for HQ that they must all take TDA...

IN DA army the DW is always in TDA but in a codex chapter the first company memebrs can wear what they like better... TDA, power armour, artificer armour...

In addition this pure genius thing prevent a first company of the BA to have sanguinary priests and techmarines cause they dont have access to TDA...

GW should concentrate their poor design abilities to make decent dexes and not writing dozen of crappy manuals in the poor attempt (poor cause their revenues are costantly decreasing) to make more money...

 

Quality over quantity...

[Master Avoghai]

About the FOC? I think we should rather expect an alternative FOC like the DE coven supplement:

 

Special FOC : "the hunt"

 

3HQ

6 ELITE

No troops

6 FAST ATTACK *1

3 HEAVY SUPPORT *2

 

*1 no assault squad

*2 only LR variants or LSV

 

This FOC Will allow players to play pure RW, pure DW or a mixwing. As always, the warlord traits will be re rollable and there will be another bonus (not objective secured) like a reserve reroll for DSing unit or flanking units.

 

Simple and more than likely...

[JamesI]

About the FOC? I think we should rather expect an alternative FOC like the DE coven supplement:

 

Special FOC : "the hunt"

 

3HQ

6 ELITE

No troops

6 FAST ATTACK *1

3 HEAVY SUPPORT *2

 

*1 no assault squad

*2 only LR variants or LSV

 

This FOC Will allow players to play pure RW, pure DW or a mixwing. As always, the warlord traits will be re rollable and there will be another bonus (not objective secured) like a reserve reroll for DSing unit or flanking units.

 

Simple and more than likely...

That works, but probably would include a LOW slot as well.

[Bryan Blaire]

I had put together some ideas on FOC stuff over here previiusly.

[Master Sheol]

Considering how GW handled the BA first company we can argue something like that...

 

Deathwing Company FOC

1-2 HQ (*)

3-20 Elites (**)

0-6 HS (***)

 

(*) Only IC that can take TDA including Belial

(**) Only DWK (0-3 units) DWTS (3-10 units) DWCS (0-3 units) Venerable Dreads (0-6)

(***) Only LR/LRC/LRR that MUST take the DW Veichle upgrade

 

Plus a couple of special rules here including the reroll or the warlord trait

 

 

 

RW Company FOC

1-2 HQ (*)

0-3 Elite (**)

3-15 FAST ATTACK (***)

0-3 HS (****)

 

(*) Only IC that can take a bike including Sammael

(**) Only RWCS (0-3 units)

(***) Only RWAS (1-10 units) BK (0-3 units) RWSS (0-5 units) DS (0-5) Nephilim (0-3)  DT (0-3)

(****) Only LSV (0-3)

 

Plus a couple of special rules here including the reroll or the warlord trait

 

I intentionally moved the DWCS and the RWCS to the elites like they are in codex BA cause i guess this is how GW will handle a 7th edition DA codex...

 

I guess it could work something like that...

[Isiah]

Yep I'm sure it'll be something along those lines. For the RW, Techmarines would fall into the HQ slots as that's where they sit in the BA dex now!!

 

Cheers

I

[Hoots]

can i just have a teleport homer on azrael? can't beleive he always goes out and forgets it! maybe one of the watchers in the dark has hidden it! either way i think it would not be asking too much for the chaprt master to ba able to call in 1st company back up on his position via teleport homer without having to ask somebody else if they bothered to bring theirs!

[Isiah]

:D

 

It might happen.

[Phoebus]

I dream of the day when GW will realize that, so long as equipment, attributes, special abilities, and point values are properly balanced, it's unnecessary to limit named characters to a pre-built list of wargear. It irritates me that, if you feel like "wasting" the points, you can upgrade a Company Master to an outrageous extent... but Azrael is doomed to always fight as Azrael.

 

I'll go so far as to say that, if your character could conceivably be in command of a strike cruiser, you should be allowed to buy the Orbital Bombardment option.

[Hoots]

Exactly, why cant azrael have some terminator armour for a change and teleport in himself instead of being such a wuss. hmm maybe he see how many of my termies meet a horrible fate and sensibly leaves teleporting to the clearly crazy 1st company. Hell why cant you pay the points and take a captain or even chapter master as a dreadnought! I'd like to see an ironclad chapter master drop podding in for party times!

[shabbadoo]

But then GW will only make THE version of the character in miniature form, and you'll get an internet full or morons whining about why they can't get their character equipped with X.  No, GW is right to limit equipment in most cases, as there is little reason to make different miniatures for the same character.  It has only happend once anyways, with Marneus, and you will note that GW only came out with the TDA version, but didn't re-do the venerable power armored verison.  Models don't need TDA to teleport. It is just that models in TDA often will teleport.  Besides, Azrael's artificer armor + Lion Helm is better than TDA + iron halo, as he can still chase stuff down, so he surely wouldn't want TDA anyway.  The solution?  Remove the whole "Only characters in TDA can teleport." bit.  It is inane anyways, as teleporters are not selective to armor.  You can teleport all sorts of things, not just people in TDA.

[Phoebus]

I'm sorry, but that strikes me as a false argument/choice. The fact of the matter is that GW could stick with the standard model while allowing any number of options for the character itself. This forum is proof that the gaming community is more than happy to modify models of all types for purposes ranging from competition to simple aesthetics.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Belial is the obvious example in support of that

[shabbadoo]

Supports that people will kitbash/convert models, not that GW will make rules for models/model options it has no plans to make.

[Grand Master Raziel]

The 3rd edition mini-dex featured what are essentially Formations that had Ravenwing and Deathwing units in the Troops category.  With FOC-swaps seeming to be a thing of the past and with all units scoring anyway, the FOC-swap isn't as relevant as it used to be anyway.  The only reason to continue to have it would be to alleviate FOC pressures, and GW wants to break down people's resistance to Unbound play, so they are not motivated to give us FOC swaps.  Just the opposite, one would think.

 

So, with the loss of FOC-unlocking a likely scenario, my question would be: Are Azrael, Sammael, and Belial going to be worth their current points-cost without their FOC-swapping abilities?  Admittedly, probably an imponderable.  I'm not confident GW will adjust their points-cost, but I could picture them being given some other abilities.

 

Personally, I could live with losing Ravenwing and Deathwing Troops if GW would make the Nephilim and Dark Talon worth taking.  Off the top of my head, if they gave the Nephilim the option of swapping out the TL-HB for a  TL-MM for free (there's a precedent for this in the Storm Raven), bumping the missiles to S7 AP2 (say they're plasma warheads, since the DAs have so much other wacky plasma stuff), and drop the price to 150pts. 

 

Are Company Vets really a popular option?  I always thought the general consensus was they suck in comparison to Sternguard.  We wouldn't rather have Sternguard?

[Phoebus]

Supports that people will kitbash/convert models, not that GW will make rules for models/model options it has no plans to make.

No one is denying that, though.  I'm just saying that GW could make rules for models/model options it has no plans to make.  Worst case scenario, it just gives creative license, freedom, and logical options to the players.  Best case scenario, they do eventually make said models/model options.

[Dafoo]

Well, as hard as losing BA AM's as troops was the dex has a lot of weight to it. All codices seem to be falling in line pretty well for 7th. I just hate the catalog set up. Other than that they are very fair. For what Mephiston lost he gained a lot, including a point drop of 75 points. If the utility of Belial and Sammael is going to change so too will their points. This might be wishlisting but I would not be surprised if the former 3rd company Deathwing Captain is going to get a decent overhaul, I mean look at the monster they made out of Dante.

[Ishagu]

-Azrael will likely become an Eternal Warrior, ap2 sword, 4++ for whole squad Lord of War.

 

-Belial shoul have Eternal Warrior.

 

-The Nephelim bolter should be ap3, and the missiles str7 ap4.

 

-Dark Angels should get Grav

 

-Expect to lose Termie and Biker troops.

 

-Would be Epic if DA had access to Jetbikes. Just re-jig the fluff a bit...

[JJD]

I don't know if this is overly synical but the reason don't expect to see FOC altering HQs in codexs any more is money. Why give something away for free when you can charge extra after for a data slate or supplement. As with all retail it's all about up selling. Can I get you any sides with that order.

[navihawk11]

-Azrael will likely become an Eternal Warrior, ap2 sword, 4++ for whole squad Lord of War.

 

-Belial shoul have Eternal Warrior.

 

-The Nephelim bolter should be ap3, and the missiles str7 ap4.

 

-Dark Angels should get Grav

 

-Expect to lose Termie and Biker troops.

 

-Would be Epic if DA had access to Jetbikes. Just re-jig the fluff a bit...

I think all of this is good But if we take a look at what the other chapters have that we don't I think we can get a good idea of what GW is thinking of/capable of giving us.

• Codex Marines, BA and Space Wolves all have thier own Dreadnaught kits. We just have an upgrade sprue.
• Codex, Wolves and BA all have specific tac squad kits. We have the Dark Vengeance tac squad, but that is not really the same as a multipart kit.
• Codex and BA have specialty Rhino chasis vehicles in the Baal Pred and the Stalker. (I could see the logic being that we have the LS vengeance so we don't get a special Rhino chasis vehicle)
• All the other chapters have acces to a transport flyer in the codex.

All chapters have a unique terminator kit. So we are good there. We also have a unique bike kit and a unique speeder kit.

[HsojVvad]

 

-Expect to lose Termie and Biker troops.

 

 

 

That could be the case, but then I would see Dark Angels being able to field more Elites and Fast Attack with Objective Secured Elites and Fast Attack units. Maybe anything Marked Deathwing and Ravenwing units have OS trait.