List building from zero

[knife&fork]

This is pretty much me trying to figure out the basic building blocks in our new codex. The focus is on pure BA, simply because I prefer it that way.

Forge world and other non codex sources are not out of the question, but I prefer to work with the main book as far as possible. 

 

 

Since (almost) everything can score there are a few things I consider instrumental in a list. 

 

Anti AV

This includes all AV, from skimmers to land raiders and super heavy walkers.

 

Anti Bubblewrap/horde

Pretty much everything below the MEQ statline that can drag us down or prevent us from reaching more important targets.

 

Anti MC

Flying and non flying. Everything from Daemon princes to wraithknights.

 

 

The above are IMHO the big three. 

 

Anti Psyker, Anti Air being the secondary concerns. 

 

 

In your opinion what are the best units (and unit combos) in the new codex to deal with 'the big three'? 

I'm not too worried about synergies at this point, just straight unit vs unit performance in a vacuum. 

 

 

[Zynk Kaladin]

Hmm, I'm looking at more specialized army core for alpha strike nuking.  I like to consider the cheapest options we have that do the most damage.  Here are my thoughts:

Anti-AV or MC:  5 man ASM (x2 melta, infernus pistol, pod).  Cheap squad with 3 melta shots and a krak grenade stand a good chance of nuking enemy armor.

 

Anti-Horde: 5 man Tacs(heavy flamer, combi flamer, pod, deathwind):  Cheap troop choice with 2 templates and a large blast.  Great for objective camping, too.

 

Benefits:

• Lots of special weapons for very low points cost
• Drop pods pretty good at alpha strikes
• Can threaten almost anything that isn't a flier

Downsides

• Small unit size makes them easily killable.
• Very little late-game capabilities (except objective camping tacs)
• How they are used is incredibly transparent.  A good opponent could probably out think such a strategy.

 

I kindof want to run a list like this with Karl and Corbs and see how effective re-rolling seize the initiative on a 5+ is.  They deploy first, you seize then pod them in the FACE.

[Brother apocalyptic]

One of my go to units for anti AV and anti MC is the baal predator... It has enough shots / round to put at least 2 or 3 wounds into almost any target each shooting phase. Against AV, it has a decent chance of putting hurt on any tank.

[Frater Cornelius]

anti-AV:

Command Squad with 3 meltas. Get two of those, either deploy or deep strike with Dante's DoA. Attach IC to tank and benefitnfrom FnP. My favoured Dante bus.

Alternatively, use ASM as a poor man's CS.

 

anti-Inf:

Flamers. Fragioso in Deathwind pod, 5man tac with HF in deathwind pod or TLHF razorback.

Or use DC. They will blend through any GEQ squad, especially with Astorath.

 

anti-Flyer:

Not needed. Flyers are eithet overpriced or ineffectual. I prefer going for a strong board presence. Our army is fast enough to reach the opponents deployment zone by T2, by which point most flyers are bummed.

I like to use Sicaran Battle Tank as makeshift AA.

FMC (mostly Skyblight) is a slightly different breed though. However, I see no point effective AA in the book. I would still go for ground domination and use AsC Baal and Sicaran or anything else twin-linked to shoot it from the sky.

 

You forgot one tiny thing though: Anti-MC. They are the biggest pain in the rear and can not be dealt with by just throwing a few meltas at it.

I would love to say Grav-Bikes, but I am not sold on it yet, mainly because of the cost. There is other things I want to take and I hate being shoe-horned into grav. The whole reason I started BA is to get away from grav spam.

If anti-Monster, specifically the big three (Riptide, NDK, WK) can be solves, I will be happy.

My second instinct was DC with a few burried PF. But they will charge T3 most of the time, which may be too late...

[Rafen IX]

Jump DC (now cheaper) should be able to get into those MC's alot faster, hopefully turn 2. If in doubt a librarian implanted with wings will have them rocketing up the board.

I do agree, MC get a lot of love in 7th edition and are a massive pain to shift.

R

[Frater Cornelius]

Here is my answer to them:

 

Riptides:

- Get Dante, an IC with Angel's Wings and a Command Squad and deep strike them right behind a his lines (with something to shoot). He won't be able to intercept with pie plates. Tank shots with IC and either distract the whole army and force to move Riptides away, or charge them with Dante. If he moves away, well, then we moved right into your DC who will bury it in attacks and Power Fists.

 

Dreadknight:

- Again, DC. Deep striking Meltas is too risky here, unless you have Dante to tank his ID attacks. You will strike before the NDK and he will only kill around 3 DC. With two buried fists he can not challenge them and they will rip him a new one. He might also go down before because you strike faster than him on the charge.

 

Wraithknights:

- If he uses two the S10 shots, ignore it. That is right. What is he going to do? Kill 1-2 MEQ per turn. Not impressive enough. If he seeks to melee you, throw with DC with Fists. He will kill around 2-3 per turn, while you can hurt him with all attacks on the charge, and nuke him with fists.

He has no invul save unless he is in melee mode or costs way too much, at which point you can go after the rest of his army and dominate the ground. So yeah, if he shoots, let him shoot. If he wants melee, give with DC or Dante.

 

So yeah, DC seems a pretty solid solution together with Melta spam. Since we do not need to run that many tanks, we can safely ignore many MCs configurations until they want to melee us, at which point we hit them with overwhelming numbers.

[Gaweda]

I admit I'm mostly used to facing MC's since my most common opponent is a Tyrannid player. On average I face between 6 - 8 MC's per game, and I have found dreadnoughts (what a surprise...I can't help it, I love them) to be awesome at stopping them. Maybe not the Fragioso, but the Libby Dread with his force weapon is an MC's worst nightmare. He averages two MC kills a game, which is why I never leave home without him. DC Dread wasn't bad, I'm super excited for Blood Talons to be Strength 10 now. Otherwise DC getting the charge so hitting on 5's to wound. This was with a Reclusiarch, so I was getting wound re-rolls, but I can't imagine them not wiping MC remains off their boots with 40+ attacks.

 

Oh yes, Fragioso's and Flamer Baal Predators never fail me at getting rid of bubblewraps.

[Frater Cornelius]

Tyranid MCs are not a big problem in my eyes. At least not as big as the big three. Riptide shoots Dreads to death while NDK is just as fast and the WK is faster. Of cause, this is an issue that BSFD can solve, however, a Dread only moved 6" while WK and NDK are jump MCs.

[Gaweda]

Against a Tau player with 2 riptides, I usually bring one down by dropping my libby dread from a stormraven. The other I generally ignore until late game because riptides...*shrug*, I think one riptide is more a nuisance than a genuine threat.

 

Edit: Never faced a NDK, though I'm assembling one for my GK contingent. His stats sure are scary.

[Frater Cornelius]

With smart positioning you can force him to take a DC charge, which will be devastating in most cases.