kburn Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Just entries, and a short justification on why next to it. What does everyone's list look like? Good Priest - Lost bubble. Assault is not as good as before. Good to upkeep tacticals Chaplain - Situational. Good with most assault squads Death Company - Hidden powerfists and powerweapons make this a very attractive choice. Survivable and cheap. Sanguinary Guard - Alternative to DC. More survivable, more killy for more expensive. DC wins out on efficiency, but it takes a good slot as an "uber" unit Baal pred - Great platform for plenty AC and TLHB dakka. Cheap. Predator - Great platform for most weapons. Cheap. Average Captain - Vanilla Commander for Vanilla army Libby - Millage varies according to what you use him for really. Some armies don't need him, some armies do Tactical squads - Vanilla jack of all trades. Can do last minute steals on objectives. Nothing special, other than you need 2 minimum Assault Terminators - Needs viable delivery system. Other than that, +1I makes at least 2 LC terms awesome. One on the IC, the other to shred troops. Other 3 TH+SS can just tank it. Sternguard - Can fill many roles in the army averagely Rhino - Dirt cheap troop delivery system. Threat rating is so low, there's no point even shooting it. Landspeeder - Cheap and fast anti(whatever). Require finesse to use Bikes - Cheap and fast anti(whatever). Alternative to landspeeder. Require finesse to use Flying brick - Actually good. Viable terminator delivery system, huge loadout of weapons for all situations. Its very ugly, so very annoying to have and paint, which makes it average Devastator Squad - This is the shooting edition. Depends what you kit them out for Vindicator - Has to move a bit too close for my liking to kill stuff. This will be the second thing they destroy on the board. Landraider - Very expensive jack of all trades, master of none. Ok to deliver terminators, but still very very expensive choice. Bad Libby Dread - Too slow, lost his "jump pack", easy to kill due to plethora of str7 weapons used to strip hull points Techmarine - Jack of all trades, master of none. Too expensive for vehicle repair. Only viable use I can think of is to stick him into a flying brick to constantly repair it, and even that's expensive Scout squad - Too much AP4 around for them to survive long, doesn't being anything special to the table Command squad - Outclassed by DC, more expensive, less survivable Dreadnought - AV12 too killable, too expensive DC Dread - AV12 makes sure this guy will never get into combat Furioso - Outclassed by DC, too slow Terminator squad - Baal is a cheaper and more efficient assault cannon platform. Doesn't do much despite costing very high, other than survive Vanguard - Far less survivable, for 1 point cheaper as compared to DC, with lesser damage output Razorback - This is the first thing they'll shoot. AV11 Drop pod - Nothing worth delivering in it Assault squad - Far outclassed by DC. No option for hidden powerfist. Sgt must challenge. Better tools for melta/flamer rushing people. Not even worth it as fire-and-forget weapons Whirlwind - Plenty of better anti-troop options. Whirlwind launcher is very weak. They should fire actual rockets instead of crayolas All in all, pretty much the same as a normal marine codex. Suffers greatly from being the shooty edition. Only outstanding unit IMO is the DC. Other than that, we'll be forced to play like normal marines. If you take the flying brick, a unit is assault terminators is always a good choice. They're significantly better than the vanilla flavoured ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Putting drop pods and dreads in the bad section gave me a good laugh this morning, thanks! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 And Baals in the good! Comedy++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 My first impressions: Good: Libby - cheap now Dante - beatstick + doa Fragioso - needs no comment Assault squads - 5man 2melta fast rhino for 105 points! or the 4melta pod for a bit more Death Company - very strong Attack Bike - very strong Bike Squad - only viable grav unit Stormraven - strong like before Drop Pod - very strong Rhino - see assault Libby Dread - great in a Stormraven for Riptides, Wraihguards or other MC. Priest - cheap and good syngergi with some units, though not that many. Avg. TH Termies - great with the new priest, just start them on the table. Potential for wings movement. Karl - reserve rerolls decent statline Sangunary Guard - very similar to DC, just slightly weaker Mephiston - not sure yet Corb - not sure yet Stenguard - similar to before CCW Dreads - str 10 still has potential Rifledread - reliable Scouts - some fun options here Tacticals - cheap and new flamer Baal Pred - cheaper sponsons no scout Dev Squad - LC Devs look interesting now Predator - Tri-Las pred looks kinda interesting. Vindicator - Got a little cheaper and still fast Razorback - good for CAD lists Land Raider - Same as before Bad: Tac Terminator - no comment LC Termies - better options, though mixing with TH is possible Chaplain - no comment Vanguard Vets - better options Command Squad - not sure, but nothing appealing Whirlwind - never tried, but not appealing Relic's are pretty decent and the new spells are better than expected. E-Book gives a nice overview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 What's the benefit for the Battle Company formation? Objective secured already applies to troops. So what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWfitz Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 only applies to troops in certain detachments. Doesn't apply to troops in the GK nemesis strike force detachment as an example. and seeing as a formation is it's own independent detachment it means it applies to the formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Obj.Sec. only applies to Troops if you play a Combined Arms Detachment. In any other detachment they lose it and gain other benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Seems to good to be true, 5 assault marines can get the Rhino for free? That means your paying 8 points per marine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 No, you are still paying 17 per Marine. You just do not pay for the Rhino and forfeit your Jump Packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Thats a huge discount, gonna give them a whirl next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Remtek has the right of it. Also I'm really tempted with Dropping in a Libarian Dreadnought. Consider a Strength 10 Force Weapon Libarian Dreadnough at AP2 with the Primaris increasing the amount of attacks by D3 and initiative. Speaking of switch he is a Initiative 5 dread on the charge, this greatly increases his survivability and in truth should be considered a target priority when fighting against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section. I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330. Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save. They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks. So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Seems to good to be true, 5 assault marines can get the Rhino for free? That means your paying 8 points per marine? Just over 100 smackeroos for a fast rhino (or pod) with twin meltas? If the wording is identical to codex astartes' I can seen nothing suggesting they can't do this, just that vanilla have no melta's or fast rhino's so I guess it's just not something they'd consider? I can see the utility of that, but I'd maybe be more tempted by free pods and save the rhino's for tactical squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section. I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330. Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save. They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks. So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long. 10 DC with two Fists and JP cost me 280. 10 SG cost 330 without FnP, less attacks and not being Fearless (which does matter because falling back 3D6 can lose you plenty of ground). SG are simply too expensive, whereas DC can be taken en mass now. I am planning to run 2 units of 10 with 2 Fists each. The thing is, DC is a great blender unit. Against tougher customers like 2+ save guys, you have Characters and Meltas. And even then DC can overwhelm them with mass of attacks. With Fists they can even kill Walkers and Tanks. I see what you are saying. But having to take a Priest (which can singled out and killed) and having no invul safe at the cost of a TDA is rather steep. I will try them, but I do not expect much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section. I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330. Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save. They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks. So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long. 10 DC with two Fists and JP cost me 280. 10 SG cost 330 without FnP, less attacks and not being Fearless (which does matter because falling back 3D6 can lose you plenty of ground). SG are simply too expensive, whereas DC can be taken en mass now. I am planning to run 2 units of 10 with 2 Fists each. I'm not using old costs, 10 naked DC are 200 points, they would all need power weapons to put them on equal equipment footing which puts them up to 350 before jump pack costs. Afterall all guard have PW, sure you can discount that but when it comes down to it it gives them a huge edge when your strike last guys are all dead before they hit. You can run bigger blobs of them but they are not the better option unless you see them running with Astorath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yeah my bad, I misread that all are taking PW. I edited my post in accordance to that. Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Like: Larger Sang Guard Most things got cheaper More weapon options (Grav, H Flamers, Relics) Dislike: RAS only get a Rhino or Drop Pod as DT if they drop their JP. I'd rather take Razors Libbys kept Shield of Sang, but can't use it when in a vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspecti Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Are the Drop Pods in fast attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Are the Drop Pods in fast attack? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yeah my bad, I misread that all are taking PW. I edited my post in accordance to that. Check it out. Still does not change the advantage SG have over them on mass. Also I forgot to point out as well, The Guard are Fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 For one, you do not take PW on all DC, it is a waste of points. That comparison is not really adequate in my eyes. You play DC differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yeah, 10 Power Weapons is overdoing it. But let's say you DO take it, you can still cover the loss of attacks with the now cheaper Chapter Banner. I think our strength will be in the abuse of I5/WS5 for everyone. Corbulo can even boost this to I6 and WS5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Having these decussions is good. This means we have a semblence of internal balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Having these decussions is good. This means we have a semblence of internal balance. I would say the codex is actually pretty internally balanced with few things that can be abused. The things that I would say are pretty bad are Yuchi and van vets because they are outclassed by sanguinary guard and death company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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