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What's good/average/bad in the new codex?


kburn

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Just entries, and a short justification on why next to it. What does everyone's list look like?

 

Good

Priest - Lost bubble. Assault is not as good as before. Good to upkeep tacticals

Chaplain - Situational. Good with most assault squads

Death Company - Hidden powerfists and powerweapons make this a very attractive choice. Survivable and cheap.

Sanguinary Guard - Alternative to DC. More survivable, more killy for more expensive. DC wins out on efficiency, but it takes a good slot as an "uber" unit

Baal pred - Great platform for plenty AC and TLHB dakka. Cheap.

Predator - Great platform for most weapons. Cheap.

 

Average

Captain - Vanilla Commander for Vanilla army

Libby - Millage varies according to what you use him for really. Some armies don't need him, some armies do

Tactical squads - Vanilla jack of all trades. Can do last minute steals on objectives. Nothing special, other than you need 2 minimum

Assault Terminators - Needs viable delivery system. Other than that, +1I makes at least 2 LC terms awesome. One on the IC, the other to shred troops. Other 3 TH+SS can just tank it.

Sternguard - Can fill many roles in the army averagely

Rhino - Dirt cheap troop delivery system. Threat rating is so low, there's no point even shooting it.

Landspeeder - Cheap and fast anti(whatever). Require finesse to use

Bikes - Cheap and fast anti(whatever). Alternative to landspeeder. Require finesse to use

Flying brick - Actually good. Viable terminator delivery system, huge loadout of weapons for all situations. Its very ugly, so very annoying to have and paint, which makes it average

Devastator Squad - This is the shooting edition. Depends what you kit them out for

Vindicator - Has to move a bit too close for my liking to kill stuff. This will be the second thing they destroy on the board.

Landraider - Very expensive jack of all trades, master of none. Ok to deliver terminators, but still very very expensive choice.

 

Bad

Libby Dread - Too slow, lost his "jump pack", easy to kill due to plethora of str7 weapons used to strip hull points

Techmarine - Jack of all trades, master of none. Too expensive for vehicle repair. Only viable use I can think of is to stick him into a flying brick to constantly repair it, and even that's expensive

Scout squad - Too much AP4 around for them to survive long, doesn't being anything special to the table

Command squad - Outclassed by DC, more expensive, less survivable

Dreadnought - AV12 too killable, too expensive

DC Dread - AV12 makes sure this guy will never get into combat

Furioso - Outclassed by DC, too slow

Terminator squad - Baal is a cheaper and more efficient assault cannon platform. Doesn't do much despite costing very high, other than survive

Vanguard - Far less survivable, for 1 point cheaper as compared to DC, with lesser damage output

Razorback - This is the first thing they'll shoot. AV11

Drop pod - Nothing worth delivering in it

Assault squad - Far outclassed by DC. No option for hidden powerfist. Sgt must challenge. Better tools for melta/flamer rushing people. Not even worth it as fire-and-forget weapons

Whirlwind - Plenty of better anti-troop options. Whirlwind launcher is very weak. They should fire actual rockets instead of crayolas

 

All in all, pretty much the same as a normal marine codex. Suffers greatly from being the shooty edition. Only outstanding unit IMO is the DC. Other than that, we'll be forced to play like normal marines. If you take the flying brick, a unit is assault terminators is always a good choice. They're significantly better than the vanilla flavoured ones.

My first impressions:

 

Good:

Libby - cheap now

Dante - beatstick + doa

Fragioso - needs no comment

Assault squads - 5man 2melta fast rhino for 105 points! or the 4melta pod for a bit more

Death Company - very strong

Attack Bike - very strong

Bike Squad - only viable grav unit

Stormraven - strong like before

Drop Pod - very strong

Rhino - see assault

Libby Dread - great in a Stormraven for Riptides, Wraihguards or other MC.

Priest - cheap and good syngergi with some units, though not that many.

 

 

Avg.

TH Termies - great with the new priest, just start them on the table. Potential for wings movement.

Karl - reserve rerolls decent statline

Sangunary Guard - very similar to DC, just slightly weaker

Mephiston - not sure yet

Corb - not sure yet

Stenguard - similar to before

CCW Dreads - str 10 still has potential

Rifledread - reliable

Scouts - some fun options here

Tacticals - cheap and new flamer

Baal Pred - cheaper sponsons no scout

Dev Squad - LC Devs look interesting now

Predator - Tri-Las pred looks kinda interesting.

Vindicator - Got a little cheaper and still fast

Razorback - good for CAD lists

Land Raider - Same as before

 

Bad:

Tac Terminator - no comment

LC Termies - better options, though mixing with TH is possible

Chaplain - no comment

Vanguard Vets - better options

Command Squad - not sure, but nothing appealing

Whirlwind - never tried, but not appealing

 

Relic's are pretty decent and the new spells are better than expected. E-Book gives a nice overview.

Remtek has the right of it.

 

Also I'm really tempted with Dropping in a Libarian Dreadnought.

Consider a Strength 10 Force Weapon Libarian Dreadnough at AP2 with the Primaris increasing the amount of attacks by D3 and initiative.

Speaking of switch he is a Initiative 5 dread on the charge, this greatly increases his survivability and in truth should be considered a target priority when fighting against him.

Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section.

 

 

I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330.

Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save.

They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks.

 

So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long.

Seems to good to be true, 5 assault marines can get the Rhino for free? That means your paying 8 points per marine?

Just over 100 smackeroos for a fast rhino (or pod) with twin meltas? 

 

If the wording is identical to codex astartes' I can seen nothing suggesting they can't do this, just that vanilla have no melta's or fast rhino's so I guess it's just not something they'd consider? 

 

I can see the utility of that, but I'd maybe be more tempted by free pods and save the rhino's for tactical squads. 

 

Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section.

 

 

I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330.

Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save.

They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks.

 

So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long.

 

 

10 DC with two Fists and JP cost me 280. 10 SG cost 330 without FnP, less attacks and not being Fearless (which does matter because falling back 3D6 can lose you plenty of ground). SG are simply too expensive, whereas DC can be taken en mass now. I am planning to run 2 units of 10 with 2 Fists each.

 

The thing is, DC is a great blender unit. Against tougher customers like 2+ save guys, you have Characters and Meltas. And even then DC can overwhelm them with mass of attacks. With Fists they can even kill Walkers and Tanks.

 

I see what you are saying. But having to take a Priest (which can singled out and killed) and having no invul safe at the cost of a TDA is rather steep. I will try them, but I do not expect much.

 

 

Sanguinary Guard is not bad, but sort of without a purpose. Command Squad and ASM do a better job shooting and DC does a better job chopping. I would put CS, ASM and DC in the good section.

 

 

I see what your saying but a 10 man DC unit with power weapons and jump packs cost 380, Guard cost 330.

Yes DC get more attacks, only 1 each but guard have better gunds, Master Crafted, and a 2+ save.

They may not have FNP but easy enough to by the a priest to improve that as well and with the chapter banner they can take which DC can't they are then on equal footing for attacks.

 

So for 50 points difference you have a squad with better WS with a better save and more wounds, that in my mind is worth the 5 points more per guy all day long.

 

 

10 DC with two Fists and JP cost me 280. 10 SG cost 330 without FnP, less attacks and not being Fearless (which does matter because falling back 3D6 can lose you plenty of ground). SG are simply too expensive, whereas DC can be taken en mass now. I am planning to run 2 units of 10 with 2 Fists each.

 

 

I'm not using old costs, 10 naked DC are 200 points, they would all need power weapons to put them on equal equipment footing which puts them up to 350 before jump pack costs.

Afterall all guard have PW, sure you can discount that but when it comes down to it it gives them a huge edge when your strike last guys are all dead before they hit.

 

You can run bigger blobs of them but they are not the better option unless you see them running with Astorath.

Like:

Larger Sang Guard

Most things got cheaper

More weapon options (Grav, H Flamers, Relics)

 

Dislike:

RAS only get a Rhino or Drop Pod as DT if they drop their JP. I'd rather take Razors

Libbys kept Shield of Sang, but can't use it when in a vehicle.

Yeah my bad, I misread that all are taking PW. I edited my post in accordance to that. Check it out.

 

Still does not change the advantage SG have over them on mass.

Also I forgot to point out as well, The Guard are Fearless. 

Yeah, 10 Power Weapons is overdoing it.

But let's say you DO take it, you can still cover the loss of attacks with the now cheaper Chapter Banner.

 

I think our strength will be in the abuse of I5/WS5 for everyone.

Corbulo can even boost this to I6 and WS5.

Having these decussions is good. This means we have a semblence of internal balance.

 

I would say the codex is actually pretty internally balanced with few things that can be abused. The things that I would say are pretty bad are Yuchi and van vets because they are outclassed by sanguinary guard and death company.

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