DC vs. Sanguinary Guard vs. Honor Guard vs. Vanguard Vets

[girot]

Using what I have on hand I am kinda stuck with Power Weapon dudes in either a VV squad or a CS.  They're all the old metal Veterans so converting is difficult.  Some of them are hard to find so I'd rather not toss them in the melt bin.

 

After some though and review of everything in this thread I think I'm going to go with a CS.  One of them is getting a Company Standard and the rest already have power weapons.  I'll outfit them with holstered pistols and Storm Shields.  Holstered pistols are nice because (so far) they satisfy WYSIWYG and I can change them out between games if I need to without messing with my models.  The only conversion I need to do now is a combat shield for the champion.

[girot]

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/351/d/0/honour_guard_wip___7th_edition_update_by_girot-d8a7zsj.jpg

 

So they didn't turn out that bad!  I'm sure there are more potent configurations but I did what I could.  What do you think?

 

Oh, here is the loadout:

 

Sin Eater (champion):  Jump Pack; Power Mace; Combat Shield

Sanguinary Novitiate:  Jump Pack; Narth; Chainsword

Standard Bearer:  Jump Pack; Company Standard; Storm Shield; Inferno Pistol (holstered)

Blood Sin Veteran:  Jump Pack; Power Weapon; Storm Shield; Inferno Pistol (holstered)

Blood Sin Veteran:  Jump Pack; Power Weapon; Storm Shield; Inferno Pistol (holstered)

[Joasht]

What do you think?

 

Five men costing nearly as much as a Land Raider is a fairly steep price though :/

Also, I thought the Champion was forced to take a Sword, and had no option of using a Mace/Axe?

[ElectricPaladin]

 

What do you think?

 

Five men costing nearly as much as a Land Raider is a fairly steep price though :/

Also, I thought the Champion was forced to take a Sword, and had no option of using a Mace/Axe?

 

Yes. That's true.

[girot]

Power Weapon is rather non specific. If it glows its a power weapon. :)

[girot]

If it HAS to be a sword though I can just swap the shields between mace windoo an the butter knife dude. Everything is just sticky tack at this point.

[ElectricPaladin]

If it HAS to be a sword though I can just swap the shields between mace windoo an the butter knife dude. Everything is just sticky tack at this point.

 

Rules wise, yeah. Sadly.

[girot]

No worries. Easy fix. :)

[Joasht]

If the information in this thread is true, Vanguards win.

 

Free Power Weapons/Lightning Claws, on what I read as being potentially all twenty of them? That's a 300 point saving!

[21stPrimarch]

Yeah i am curious to see how this threads opinions change with the 2 vanguard 1 sternguard raven formation. I am on the fence still tho, as awesome as it sounds, you will be giving up alot of points that would normally go to DC or SG. Any thoughts friends?

[Frater Cornelius]

Yeah i am curious to see how this threads opinions change with the 2 vanguard 1 sternguard raven formation. I am on the fence still tho, as awesome as it sounds, you will be giving up alot of points that would normally go to DC or SG. Any thoughts friends?

 

Not in the slightest. Vanguards either start on the board and become threat no.1 for the opponent, or they deep strike and stand there. Either way, one whole round of shooting without the survivability of DC or SG. You will be surprised how fast a 3+ safe will fail you.

 

All this does is make VV a serious contender, as opposed to an auto-exclude.

[Joasht]

At least one of those VV squads would almost certainly want a Sanguinary Priest. As Immersturm said, that 3+ will fail quickly.

 

However, I personally think that there is no way to discount (hah, pun) how worth-it VVs are with free PWs. Not auto-include, but certainly far less cut-and-dry as it was just a few hours ago.

[Pascalnz]

they do lose that lovely +1 ini on the charge, but free claws on whiled wearing vv's with a sang priest in tow aint bad.

 

you....could combine that formation with the triple raven formation so that the vv's get to charge off the drop.... but you could auto lose the game if you fail 2 3+ rolls and you might not have enough points to get something cheap on the ground to save them from death

[ThatOneMarshal]

I'm just happy I can use those cool models from the vanguard box now.

[21stPrimarch]

yes but the Vanguard veterans must be in deep strike reserve. Knowing that I'm just not sure I'm sold, but hell, you're getting a hundred points in free combi weapons, I think that is what I keep getting hung up on. And truthfully, even without the ability to drop pod boom the sternguard, a turn 2 drop only scattering d6 inches with 5 combi plasma, 5 combi melta, is pretty mean for only paying for the squad and the raven. I like taking assault Marines anyway, at least ten, the only thing I don't like is deep striking them. But then again, I wasn't getting power weapons on everyone before and an extra attack for 4 melta bombs more.

[ThatOneMarshal]

yes but the Vanguard veterans must be in deep strike reserve. Knowing that I'm just not sure I'm sold, but hell, you're getting a hundred points in free combi weapons, I think that is what I keep getting hung up on. And truthfully, even without the ability to drop pod boom the sternguard, a turn 2 drop only scattering d6 inches with 5 combi plasma, 5 combi melta, is pretty mean for only paying for the squad and the raven. I like taking assault Marines anyway, at least ten, the only thing I don't like is deep striking them. But then again, I wasn't getting power weapons on everyone before and an extra attack for 4 melta bombs more.

Can formations be affected by detachment rules? If so Dante or Karl can be used to re roll that reserve roll. If not then then comms relay is good.

[Frater Cornelius]

Only of the rule says 'army'. I know for a fact that Dante's DoA is limited to his own detachment.

[appiah4]

Just wanted to share my Command Squad:

 

1  Company Champion with Power Axe

1 Sanguinary Novitiate

1 Veteran Marine with Company Banner

1 Veteran Marine with Power Fist

1 Veteran Marine with Meltagun

 

All around swiss knife unit for any IC.  I may be wrong but I feel while DC, SG and VG can make much more points efficient bully units, this one is just a lot better at accompanying support HQs.

[SonOfThunder]

My feeling is that with that configuration I'd rather just take DC with less stuff and more bodies. I understand the command squad offers sweet modeling opportunities though, so rule of cool these guys win as an HQ bodyguard on foot. With JPs, that squad is more expensive than 5 SG, so again they lose. It's a shame the command squad is not a bit cheaper, or slot-free or something like that, because from a pure game perspective, when you kit them for cc, DC and SG are cheaper and meaner. Command squad with 3 specials and pod does something kind of unique in the dex, when you don't want to go 10 sternguard or budget ASM. But suicide duty is a lot less cool than bodyguard :)

[The Yncarne]

Just wanted to share my Command Squad:

 

1  Company Champion with Power Axe

 

<snip>

 

I believe the Company Champion cannot be upgraded to include an axe. My codex says:

 

“Any Veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons, ​ Ranged Weapons and/or Special Weapons lists.”

 

Emphasis mine.

[girot]

Excellent bit of logic there, SonOfThunder.  Well spoken.

[girot]

 

Just wanted to share my Command Squad:

 

1  Company Champion with Power Axe

 

<snip>

 

I believe the Company Champion cannot be upgraded to include an axe. My codex says:

 

“Any Veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons, ​ Ranged Weapons and/or Special Weapons lists.”

 

Emphasis mine.

 

I was not overly pleased when I found this out either.  The book does specifically say "Power Sword".  Used to be Power Weapon so you could use whatever you wanted but it seems that wargear's ambiguity has been lost to the Warp.

[Karhedron]

The free weapons upgrades on the VV/SV formation does indeed look tempting. Maxed out it looks to save potentially around 400 points over the 3 squads which is quite a hefty amount.

 

A less expensive option for VV is the "Angel's Wrath" formation.

 

http://www.fanhammer.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/10872857_303781923145916_751923665515986832_o.jpg

 

1VV + 2RAS squads. Tool up the RAS with melta guns and infernus pistols and use the VVs to give you some precision DS melta shots. This formation has the advantage of freeing up some hotly-contested Fast Attack slots for things like Grav Bikers.

 

The downside is that you cannot pod them for turn 1 melting. I cannot decide whether the loss of alpha striking potential is worth the extra FA slots it gives as well as the S4 hits on nearby models.

[appiah4]

I don't have the BA codex at hand but the SM codex specifically says "Any veteran can be upgraded to a Company Champion with a Power Weapon and Combat Shield."

 

Is the BA codex different?  Only Power Sword, specifically?  If so... FUUUUUuuuuuu.....

[Jolemai]

Yup, it's Power Sword only now. Which isn't too bad at STR 5, INT 5...