the quintessential astartes chainsword

[Z00Z]

From as far back as I can remember, the chainsword is the quintessential asrartes close combat weapon. The imagery of an astartes powering up his chainsword and carving up xenos, deamons and chaos alike.

 

Yet...

 

Why bother? It is the most underwhelming weapon and given the codex options to replace a chainsword or pistol with a ranged melee weapon, it makes no sense to replace the pistol which is superior in every way.

 

Its a shame as from a visual asthetics perspective, modelling a CS and combi looks far better than a BP and combi. Yet, wysiwig rules, the CS must be shelved. The dilemma is thus; im building a 10 strong PA WG as part of thunderstrike and solstice pledge and my plan is 10bstrong magnetised combi plasmas, but the other arm....sigh....besides magnetised specials, will be BP..

[Frater Cornelius]

When you remember SW fluff, they are mainly using Axes. Axes are weapons as well as survival tools. I want to have my models to have axes somewhere on their body, even if they use another weapon.

 

If you want any weapon, attach it is holstered form, regardless if it is used. You can always say the opponent that it is actual equipment or just an aesthetic piece. You can't lose ;)

[Vykryl]

Why the pistol in this case? The combi plasma is your ranged weapon over the pistol. As a combi weapon is just as good a basic ccw as a pistol or chainsword then why bother adding a BP or CS? If the pistol is just a visual side arm/ccw why not go for the chainsword?

 

On a model with storm shield/ccw (TWC) a pistol or bolter makes more sense than a chainsword.

 

If the ccw Is purely there for aesthetics the go for the one that looks best on your model.

[Donkalleone]

I think we are discussion why a Pistol is better than a Chainsword.

It has a Assault Shot attack and counts as a CCW in CC with the same DMG as the CS.

Thats why you equip a CS/Pistol combo on TWC for the +1 Attack and give an RP a Pistol instead of bolter. And if u have a Combiweapon and must choose between a Pistol and a CS as a second weapon its a simple descission. When u can equip 2 Pistols u even gain Gunslinger.

[Vykryl]

I think we are discussion why a Pistol is better than a Chainsword.

It has a Assault Shot attack and counts as a CCW in CC with the same DMG as the CS.

Thats why you equip a CS/Pistol combo on TWC for the +1 Attack and give an RP a Pistol instead of bolter. And if u have a Combiweapon and must choose between a Pistol and a CS as a second weapon its a simple descission. When u can equip 2 Pistols u even gain Gunslinger.

I get that. Paired with a combi weapon (plasma in this case), both bolt pistol and chainsword are looks only. You don't get an extra attack from either option. The bolter portion of the combi is same s/ap as the pistol, has option to shoot 1 time and assault like a pistol, can double tap for over watch, can shoot up to 24". The bolt pistol is as useless in the proposed scenario as the chainsword is. Either basic ccw option is just for looks when paired with a combi. In this scenario I say pick the one that makes your model look best in your eyes. You could have it wield a combi in one hand and a bolter in the other (80's action hero?) And it would function the same on the table top as a combi/bp pairing

[Yoyo ninja]

Both shooting profiles on the combi-plasma are rapid fire, so in PA you can't fire it and charge. The bolt pistol gives you the option to shot your target in shooting phase then charge. The pistol gives you more options than the Chainsword. It is a shame, I have always thought the Chainsword should have an ap, even if it was a token ap of 6. It would just give them a purpose and be more fluffy. But alas.

[Vykryl]

I thought the rapid fire was an option when inside 12, didn't realize it was mandatory. Sorry about my nonsense then. Had to go back and reread rapid fire rule. Now I see the pistol does serve a purpose alongside a bolter or combi

[Yoyo ninja]

Yea, unfortunately you can not fire anything with the rapid fire special rule and then charge. Unless you are relentless (terminators for example).

 

As for the op, I would just model them with combi, Chainsword and holstered bolt pistol as already suggested.

 

I do miss the true grit rule for this. Space wolves where so hard they could fire bolters one handed, so a bolter also counted as a pistol for combat! Awesome! I was hoping they where going to reinstate it for this edition. But alas we got the stupid CCW tax :S nevermind.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I love the look of a Combi and a CS. Where's the issue?

 

End of Line

[skeletoro]

the issue is that you're forced to choose between looks and effectiveness. If you model with a chainsword it looks cool but technically you'd be better off (mechanically) if you gave the model a bolt pistol instead of a chainsword. The two options are identical except for one thing: the pistol wielder can shoot before charging.

 

My solution for combi-plasma wolf guard would be to just holster their pistol and have them wielding the combi in two hands (or to have an empty hand). I magnetize my wolf guard so i'd still have problems... If I decided to give the model a storm shield, the holstered bolt pistol would be inaccurate as the combi+ss model doesn't have a bolt pistol. But that's about the best option I can come up with.

 

Thunder wolf cavalry are a bit more challenging as a chain weapon looks far better than a pistol (IMO) next to a storm shield. I guess I would add holstered pistols but even then you'd have a chainweapon in hand that isn't reflected in the model's actual load out (shield and pistol). I think I would just explain to my opponent: ignore pistols and ccws on the model - only pay attention to upgrades. No upgrades = bp+ccw. One upgrade = bp+that. Two upgrades = that's what the model has (no pistol).

 

Relatively uncomplicated and frees you up, from a modelling perspective, to add bolt pistols and chain weapons to the twc in any combination you like, without mechanical implications. Bring on the scabbarded chain weapons, dual wielding a pair of axes, etc. Again, not ideal and could lead to issues but for me it is preferable than having to give all my ss+pistol TWC that mix on the actual model.

[MustangTC]

The thunderwolf one is ugly. I'd rather they didn't give us the option! Still I refuse to model the bolt pistol storm shield combo!

[Z00Z]

Skeletoro and YoYo Ninja captured the essence of it. I'm currently modelling a 10 strong unit of WG PA. My plan, though ambitious, is to magnetise both sets of arms and provide a flexibility that I don't need to model many more PA. I'm currently up to 50 bodies, hence the reason for magnetising. If I look at what the loadouts will be and the uses thereof, the unit of 10 should be able to cover most uses. eg. 

 

- 10 off, with combi-plasma + pistol (Thunderstrike formation, 20 plasma shots, re-roll on miss), shoot next round with pistol not bolter for the charge. 

- 1 off, combi-flamer + pistol to pair off a 15 bloodclaw unit as a proper WG pack leader, with appropriate shoulder markings

- 2 off, combi-meltas + pistol to pair off GH melta units as a proper WG pack leader, with appropriate shoulder markings

- at least 2 arms with PA SS

- at least 2 arms with PA axe

- at least 2 arms with WC

 

So the plan is build a single unit that will offer the flexibility of running thunderstrike formation or used as unit leaders to other foot-slogging PA.

If I run magnetised dual-arm combi's for the formation, combi-flamer and combi-meltas, that would mean full magnetised both sides on all 10. The issue here is if I plan to skimp some points in the formation and keep them as BP+CS, it will increase the next amount of arms/combos to use.

 

Having 5 non magnetised BP on one side should allow me the full flexibility. It's an ambitious project nonetheless :D

 

Thanks for the input brothers! Appreciated   

[Donkalleone]

I dont think there will be any Issue with a holstered Pistol with Shield TWC since the Shield automatically prevends an extra attack the issue of having a CS and Pistol doesnt matter so most of the player will understand.

Furthermore most Tournament rules have the "more then less is better" rule (Sorry bad wording) which means a unit can have more weapons shown it can use rather than using something that isnt on the modell...so Holstered Pistol all the way if u like it.

 

Since i dont like CS  ( the Looks of the general ones) i give evry GH a Dagger holstered that is in the Set included instead of holstering the Pistol.

[skeletoro]

I have just recently finished magnetising a thunderstrike formation... I gave all the power armour guys shoulder and wrist magnets on each arm :o

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

To each his own, I suppose. I model the CS when ever possible, because it looks waaaaaaaaay cooler. I am not a competitive player, as you all already know. So the addition of a Bolt Pistol and its single shot is easily given up for an awesome looking whirlwind of death choppy killing weapon.

 

End of Line

[Lord Blackwood]

When I was modeling my Black Isles Berserkers for the kill team tourney , I just modeled them with two chainswords and the pistols holstered on the back of the saddle. It just looked cooler to me XD  plus no one argued and the one guy who went " wait they have pistols !? " calmed down when i showed him the backs of the saddles.  

[benane]

I'm in a similar dilemma while building my GH. As I don't want to magnetize all of them just to have the option for the ccw. It seems though that you run them rarely with the CS so i just model them with bolters in both hands. Maybe once i get more competitive i glue on some daggers in sheaths or just make seperate squads if i finally get a job ;)

[Yoyo ninja]

You could model a final fantasy 8 style sword with a gun build into it. Might look very cheesy, but it would solve the problem!haha,

[Karack Blackstone]

OP should have played Space Marine; don't even get a CS as a weapon as a Tactical Marine in that game, only as an Assault.

 

Anyway, The CS is in need of perhaps a revisit; the question is, what's two points in the modern game going to buy us and anyone else that can get one?  Guard, other Astartes, Chaos, everyone that can get a Chainsword, including us, would have whatever the weapon is given.

 

The problem is, the Chainsword needs something:  I do like that the OP started this discussion, though.

 

AP 6 does make sense, however as much as I love Rending, I do not find it likely without a points increase.  A points decrease might be in order, however in the current meta that might be too good.

[Valerian]

I thought the rapid fire was an option when inside 12, didn't realize it was mandatory.

 

Rapid Fire is a weapon type, not an action.

 

 

I do miss the true grit rule for this. Space wolves where so hard they could fire bolters one handed, so a bolter also counted as a pistol for combat! Awesome! I was hoping they where going to reinstate it for this edition.

 

'Ultragrit' (the combination of Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and CCW) is better in every way than the old 'True Grit' rule. 

[gwarsh41]

I would say that over 2/3 of my space wolves are wielding all sorts of other weaponry. I do feel that the chainsword should be AP6 though. I have guys weilding pikes/spears, welding dwarven axes and hammers, some with lizardmen sword thingies, others with crazy fantasy stuff I don't know where it is from. I know about 10 of them have dwarven shields as their CC weapon. 

 

It adds a whole bundle of character to the units!