Are Warp talons Worthy buys?

[xexeb]

Looking to expand my mostly thousand sons force with some options and curious what people thought of either a raptor or warp talon sideforce to harass and confuse my enemy?

i have a strong shooting and psychic phase, with some CC(spawn units, Daemon Prince). 

[Slips]

I'd buy them if only for the sculpts, honestly.

 

If you're out for ultra-competitiveness, then no, they aren't worth it in the grand scheme of things. For friendly games and whatnot, sure go ahead.

[Forté]

Yes but more as Raptors and bits.

[the jeske]

If they are taken to confuse the opponent, then talons are probably one of the two best units for it out all the chaos books we have right now.

[Carrack]

It seems like the target of warp talons is meq units. You have some speed to get there but the costly units means they will tend to be small and one bad turn of shooting can render your talons combat ineffective if not wiped out completely. Deep striking has the disadvantage of leaving them hanging for a turn when they come in, plus the could sit out half the game in reserve. Plus deep striking is risky to begin with.

On the other hand, your Tsons should do well against meq with their inferno bolts, so maybe you should look to fill another roll in your warband. Raptors could do this with putting some early game pressure while your Tsons move up field. A small squad with melta for anti tank and maybe mark of Nurgle to protect against small arms. Or a large / medium squad with flamers and maybe mark of Khorne for clearing back field objective holders and anti hoards. Bikes do this better in most ways but raptors can deal with terrain heavy boards better.

Disclaimer: I am a new player and haven't experimented with warp talons yet. The models look sexy though. Same with the Tsons.

[Chaeron]

Models are beautiful - agree with that worth!

[JamesI]

I love the models, but in game play not great. 

[Excessus]

It's a great bitbox! :)

[Lucio]

Of course, you could just buy and asemble the miniatures in case the next version of the Codex makes them decent again, just in time for GW to jack the price up of the boxed set!

[Strazhakov]

They actually don't need that much to be useful. Assault grenades and options for the Champion would suffice.

 

Still like them because how can you not? They are among the best models GW ever produced. I'm building an unbound Raptor Cult and plan to take 2x 6 Warp Talons with MoS. Those are slight above 200 pts. Sometimes they mishap or get shot to :cuss in a turn but sometimes they make non consensual love to MEQ troops and She who thirsts smiles. When the Blinding works (which is rarely) it's glorious.

 

Give them a try. Also their Lightning claws fit Terminators very well. Flint demonstrated that quite nicely recently.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Start them on the table and put a jump pack lord or sorcerer with them, then go after MEQ as fast as you can. Have other fast moving threats to diffuse enemy shooting while they're maneuvering.

 

That's how I use them, anyway. When they make contact with their target of choice they hit almost absurdly hard, but get completely greased when things don't go exactly right. Pretty much like the rest of our codex, which wouldn't even be an issue if you weren't basically forced to babysit them with an HQ just to get them to even work at all.

 

They also benefit from any Mark you feel like giving them, IMO.

 

EDIT: points-wise the problem is that GW overvalues the Daemon USR and did not appreciate the risk to cost impact of not giving them assault grenades (and that their Blind causing special ability is mismatched to their role, thematic though it may be.) So other units may not be as potentially kill-y, but are much more reliable and flexible for the point investment.

 

That said, I love my a Warp Talons.

[Psykic_scribe]

Take the talons just for the challenge and love of painting - they are great sculpts.

[Sception]

They're gorgeous models, so in a non-competitive environment can be worth it on those grounds.

 

But in terms of actually using them?  Their lightning claws are all-but-worthless against 2+ saves or vehicles, and are overkill (to the point of risking getting dragged down by sheer weight of numbers) against anything with 5+ saves or worse.

 

So they mostly want to target elite units w/ power armor.  However, due to their very high cost per model, warp talons are super weak against small arms fire, like bolters, which is what power armored enemies are generally armed with.  Which means that warp talons are extremely weak against specifically the targets you want to use them against.  (thousand sons suffer similar problems)

 

On top of that, do you really need an expensive, fragile unit in a valuable fast attack slot to hunt power armor?  The rest of our list is generally pretty decent at that already.

 

And since they're so fragile, you need to get the jump on your target.  And yeah, jump packs help with that, if you have enough LoS blocking terrain, but think of all the things that can steal that initiative back from you.  You don't have grenades, so if the opponent hides in cover, you're in trouble.  And many of the more elite power armored units that are played show up via transport - which the talons need outside help to crack - or worse, drop pod, which they can do literally nothing about.  You want to be hunting units like vanguard vets with them, but the vets will appear out of nowhere and blast their points worth of warp talons off the table before you have any chance to react.

 

And without guns or homing beacons, their deep strike option is pretty worthless, too, as likely to get you killed via mishap as it is to actually blind anything, and even if you pull it off, the next unit over can gun you down anyway.

 

 

If you want to field them, try a small unit of 5 or 6, maybe markless, maybe mark of slaanesh (if not expecting much area terrain).  Play them in games against marine opponents who prefer power armored units & elites, but don't use a lot of drop pods, and be sure there's a lot of line of sight blocking terrain.  Deploy them on the table (don't deep strike), and stay out of sight until you can charge a power armored unit that isn't in cover.  Try to aim the charge so that you can't kill everything in a round, finish them off in your opponent's turn, then either jump back into hiding or charge something else when your turn comes up again.

[the jeske]

5 talons over 200points. starts killing meq turn 2+ , good vs one wound elite meq units that are not in cover or that don't have inv/fnp or higher T[and specialy a combination of any of those]. hurt even by bolters

 

170 one helldrake. kills meq turn 2+. good vs meq, geq doesn't care if what it drops it template on. bolters do not kill it.

 

 

Helldrake is considered meh in 7th.

[Kilofix]

Warp Talons really aren't over costed. For the price of just very slightly over a standard CSM with Power Weapon per Unit; you get a Jump Pack, 2 Claws and Daemon Invul.

 

The problem is that finding the right application where using it over something like a aHeldrake is situational.

 

I really like using them in Apoc games though with Turn 1 Precision (Strat Asset) Deep Strike.

[King Jackal]

Use them as a retinue for a Lord or Sorcerer. Cast any of many different defensive buff blessings and they are fine.

But yeah if you charge them straight into mass small arms fire with no support and no target saturation, expect them to die like MEQ

Or don't and use them properly dependent on the mission and objectives, flanking and taking down targets that are ripe picking for them.

[Chaeron]

Warp Talons really aren't over costed. For the price of just very slightly over a standard CSM with Power Weapon per Unit; you get a Jump Pack, 2 Claws and Daemon Invul.

 

The problem is that finding the right application where using it over something like a aHeldrake is situational.

 

I think that's the thing though: I'd rather still run two or three Heldrakes for the fear factor, than say 5-10 bodies. Not that they're bad at all - just personal preference!

[Verbal Underbelly]

Mark of Tzeentch to up their invulnerable save will fit your army theme mate. A jump pack lord with a couple of rolls on Telepathy might give you a nice advantage too. I wouldn't bother deep striking with them - just stay behind cover. Also, perhaps use your spawn to charge a target unit then charge your talons in after. I generally try to charge one unit with two when I play.