Thornoo1 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm looking at an IC to put in with my 15 JP equipped DC. Does Astorath come with DoA? If so I see him as better option for games around 1500 to save 55 pts. I know he's not quite the beat stick but he gives re-rolls to the DC on the first turn of CC. Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Why is that even a comparison. Dante does a completely different job than Astorath. If you want to buff DC, go Astorath. If you want to use multiple melta drops, go Dante. If you want both, go both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm not sure if you should take any of them. The re-roll of attacks is nice, but you ARE taking 15 DC which don't need it. Perhaps a priest for WS5 would be just as good, if you even need it at all. So my advice would be to take Dante and more JP-units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Astorath does not give DOA. The only guaranteed way of getting DOA is Dante. In terms of combat abilitites, Dante wins hands down. More attacks, higher strength, not unwieldy. Astorath is better than a generic jump chaplain, but his main use is to buff a jump DC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 15 DC with astorath should be ideal for a huge, disordered attack. With no bonus charge attacks, but rerolls to hit and wound, you might just get stuck in with one or both enemy squads till your opponents next turn. Its a gambit, but what isn't? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 15 DC with astorath should be ideal for a huge, disordered attack. With no bonus charge attacks, but rerolls to hit and wound, you might just get stuck in with one or both enemy squads till your opponents next turn. Its a gambit, but what isn't? Indeed. If you are assaulting something extreme like a Wraithknight, Paladins or 50 Guardsmen with Azrael, then you go all out. If you want to stick around for a bit against weaker foes, do a disordered charge. Your footprint is large enough for that with 16 dudes. It is all about tactics ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Dante gets them to the place you need better than astorath, but Astorath makes them hit harder than Dante. It all depends on what you want them to do really Edit: A plain chaplain with the angel's wing may be a cheap compromise between the two: won't be as precise as Dante or as hard hitting as astorath but does combine a bit of both of their abilities Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Perceptive Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Can I ask a Dante question. Is his axe classed as unweildy?? It does say so in the table on his codex entry, but Power Axe's are normally unweildly, so what is it in his case? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 not unwieldy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Can I ask a Dante question. Is his axe classed as unweildy?? It does say so in the table on his codex entry, but Power Axe's are normally unweildly, so what is it in his case? In 40k an "unusual power weapon" has rules as listed. So Dante's axe (which has a different +str on it) is no longer a "power axe". It is wonderful! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Mortal is now has a specific profile, and it isn't unweildy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It says in the fluff that it is extremely well balanced. That + no mention of unwieldy = happy days Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Do not discount Astoraths Soul Warden trait, he denies the witch on a 5+ .... thats a fixed trait. This guy will give armies that rely on invisible powers kittens. He will up the ante in the warp charge poker game significantly. Force more WC dice to be rolled and you force more perils rolls. The DC can turn the heat up against a horde or hard to kill units or disorder the charge to drop it. You can just not take challenges from S8 characters. DC will do the killing first anyway or use Astorath without his axe at I6. Being able to hold him back or push him up on I6 or I1 is very useful. I doubt there is much left for him to do after the DC hit anyway. Edit to add Mephiston also has soul warden this is a hidden gem! Are BA the assault army to threaten Invisible units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Do not discount Astoraths Soul Warden trait, he denies the witch on a 5+ .... thats a fixed trait. This guy will give armies that rely on invisible powers kittens. He will up the ante in the warp charge poker game significantly. Force more WC dice to be rolled and you force more perils rolls. The DC can turn the heat up against a horde or hard to kill units or disorder the charge to drop it. You can just not take challenges from S8 characters. DC will do the killing first anyway or use Astorath without his axe at I6. Being able to hold him back or push him up on I6 or I1 is very useful. I doubt there is much left for him to do after the DC hit anyway. Adamantium Will only works on Witchfires, Novas and Malediction that target him or his unit. There are no modifiers on blessings. It even says that in the rule book. Always on a 6+. If you want to kill Invisible spam, you need a Culexus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I say take neither. A libby with Galian's staff, the super death mask and the veritas vitae, rolling on the Sanguinary discipline... good times! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Damn your right again Immersturm ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3889997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethocles Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 mephy's hood lets him DtW on any friendly unit in 12? 4+ (3+ if they are <=ml2) so witchfire and whatnot denied easy (5 for admantium will, 4 for psyker, 3 for having a bigger schwartz, oh space balls) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3890074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Dante is a beast in combat and buffs a deep-strike heavy army. He makes BAs even more Blood Angely. Astorath is all about making the DC even killier than they already are. If you want a unit that can kill your opponent's Thunderwolf star before the puppies get to strike then this could be the combo for you. Different tools for different jobs. Which one you take rather depends on what the rest of your army looks like. If you have lots of jump pack units then Dante looks better. If you are fielding a more conventional army which includes a DC unit for counter-charge or spearheading an assault then Astorath will give the DC a bit more muscle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3890507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd argue that Dante is all but essential if you're running a really big Death Company, since he means that your hammer unit of Death Company can't be tarpitted. He's probably more important that Astorath, though Big A does give you all the rerolls, which take DC from brutal to absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3890703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I don't know that DC can be tar pitted... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300408-astorath-v-dante/#findComment-3890805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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