Exterminatus details

[ElectricPaladin]

If you're playing 40k in a competitive environment...

That's your mistake right there. This here is not a competitive game. It's not designed to hold up under that kind of pressure. Maybe it was, once, but that was a long time ago. If you're really into hard-minded tactical wargames, I can recommend Dropzone Commander. It's a really fun game with a decent narrative, though not quite as in-depth as Warhammer 40k's. It's a tough, detailed game, definitely written with tournaments in mind. 40k is not.

You could probably pay me enough to play in a Warhammer 40k tournament. It'd cost you about $30. I'd pay to play in a Dropzone Commander tournament, though. I have. I came in third .

People like playing 40k. They like the 40k universe. They like the fluff, the models and the robust community. Some of these people also enjoy playing competitively and are unwilling to migrate to a different game just because it's more balanced. Instead, they try to balance 40k.

Simply dismissing the game as 'not suitable for competitive play' lets GW off the hook and perpetuates the idea that it's ok to release unbalanced or myopically conceived rulesets. GW want to be taken seriously, and they want to grow as a public company and see their profits start to increase again. It is their responsibility to release a premium product if they want to do justice to their shareholders. Not only does that mean they should keep producing good models and expanding the fictional universe with more novels, but also that they should attempt to produce balanced, easy to understand rules.

I think 7th edition was a step forwards, and the new team writing the codices is doing a good job streamlining the rules into an easier to balance system. The biggest weakness, as it stands, is the lack of definitive answers about interactions between allies and command benefits. That is why it is important, at least in our local scene, for the tournament organisers to take over and set limitations.

Oh, I agree that 40k needs to be a balanced game. In fact, I think that a fun game needs to be more balanced, because when it's just my buddy and me there isn't going to be a TO to tell us what's so. And I have to admit that 40k has not been a balanced game and I agree that 7th is (mostly) a step in the right direction.

However, there are certain things that a tournament game has to do that a friendly game does not. In a friendly environment, I can say to my opponent "what the is up with this cheesy ? Get that out of my face!" You can't do that at a tournament.

In short, I think it's possible for a game to be fun and fair and balanced more or less while still containing some broken stuff that makes it not tournament-ready. The Detachment system is, IMHO, one such mechanic. It's great for narrative, hell for balance. There will always be some bizarre broken combination, and as soon as you outlaw one, you're only putting another absurd combo on the top of the heap

I'm sympathetic to those poor bastards who love this game, who want to play this game and only this game, and have it be both a fun fluffy narrative game and a hard minded tactical wargame game. It seems to me that 40k is aiming to fall into that gap between "fun and reasonably balanced" and "hard-minded and tournament-ready." I feel bad. We all want things we can't have.

But, whatever. This isn't the thread for this. We can agree to disagree, and as long as we're both having fun, who cares?

[Jorre]

Let's not derail this anymore, let's keep this thread on the new exterminatus stuff plz!

you can get up to 6 furious!!  6 fragnoughts in lucius pods cost 1080 points.  Add in a libby in TDA, then add what you want from another detachment like.... 1 scout squad cassor the dammed and a tech marine...and...3 more furioso dreads? or maybe take libby dreads and/or instead...

 

DREADFULL ;P

I love the way you think!

[depthcharge12]

you can get up to 6 furious!! 6 fragnoughts in lucius pods cost 1080 points. Add in a libby in TDA, then add what you want from another detachment like.... 1 scout squad cassor the dammed and a tech marine...and...3 more furioso dreads? or maybe take libby dreads and/or instead...

 

DREADFULL ;P

 

The codex astartes names this tactic "Steel Baals"

[tsijben]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10849767_317498915114533_3000209912438772415_n.jpg?oh=548eab9323e960e3d270264141af01b7&oe=553EC931&__gda__=1430393571_f944b34ebb51214b14cdec569cfb5c85

[Frater Cornelius]

Mother of God! No Troops tax and loads of Elites.

This is Champions of Fenris all over! Love it.

 

But it seems you can not take Dante though.

[tsijben]

Or DC or SG, its just the fluff units.

[Slips]

Huh, you're right; you can't make a DC and SG only Jump Army.

 

And its a Shame the HQ's have to have Terminator Armor. Means you can't stack the "Scatters D6 Less" of the Relic Jump Pack on an HQ unit and the Command Benefit for a No-Scatter Deepstrike.

 

Great if you want to Play Terminator Wing Armies or have loads of Sternguard and/or Vanguard Vets. Shame on the Maximum 6 Furioso Dreadnoughts..

[Frater Cornelius]

But I do not think that this list can be competitive though.

Having to take a TDA HQ (and thus a TDA bus for them) is a huge handicap. JP HQ could put it in the higher echelon, but as it is you are spending points on nothing worthwhile.

Next, you are lacking Heavy Support slots is a shame because you are missing the arguably solid Baal Pred and the baals to the wall amazing Sicaran Battle Tank.

 

So yeah, if I was spared the TDA and could take JP HQs (Captain + SP in a unit of SG, flanked by two units DC, 3 Furioso Pods and 2-3 Command Squads with 3 Meltas), then it would be excellent.

As it stands, it is more a fluffy detachment, which is fine. Do not get me wrong, I respect that. But I am a Vlka Fenryka, and I started BA only for the rules to have a high speed army, an SW army though.

 

Do we have any info on 2nd Company and Dataslates? If they also turn out too fluffy and not crunchy enough, I might make a refund and get me 2 Baal Predators for the money instead.

[SonOfThunder]

This detachment is a bit of a wannabe Deathwing. If I wanted to deep strike a bunch of terminators, I'd go DA or GK. I hope there's better stuff in Exterminatus than this.

 

The detachment can have its uses though. It can be good to free some elite space in a main detachment. Want a chaplainator with a bunch of hammernators and a fragioso alpha-strike pod? Fine, take this detachment and you can still fill the 4 elite slots in your baal detachment with DC and command squads. Not like the hammernators would benefit a lot from the red thirst anyway.

 

I still hope there's a DC or a nipplewing detachment hidden somewhere. After all it's 18 datasheets that represent Dante's alliance. He has to have a place somewhere. And he's got a jump pack. Hopefully he'll have a bunch of buddies with jump packs with him.

 

So far we know there's this elite detachment. There's also a flesh tearers formation. 16 left. Don't know how many of those will be necron though, hopefully not 9. Formations look like a good option for the likes of you Immerstrum, because you can plug and play them in a TWC army (which I plan to do as well), but they are no good if all you want is an all-jump army.

[tsijben]

Don't forget that some of those are for Necrons, my second army! So I'm happy with the book.

[Frater Cornelius]

This detachment is a bit of a wannabe Deathwing. If I wanted to deep strike a bunch of terminators, I'd go DA or GK. I hope there's better stuff in Exterminatus than this.

 

The detachment can have its uses though. It can be good to free some elite space in a main detachment. Want a chaplainator with a bunch of hammernators and a fragioso alpha-strike pod? Fine, take this detachment and you can still fill the 4 elite slots in your baal detachment with DC and command squads. Not like the hammernators would benefit a lot from the red thirst anyway.

 

I still hope there's a DC or a nipplewing detachment hidden somewhere. After all it's 18 datasheets that represent Dante's alliance. He has to have a place somewhere. And he's got a jump pack. Hopefully he'll have a bunch of buddies with jump packs with him.

 

So far we know there's this elite detachment. There's also a flesh tearers formation. 16 left. Don't know how many of those will be necron though, hopefully not 9. Formations look like a good option for the likes of you Immerstrum, because you can plug and play them in a TWC army (which I plan to do as well), but they are no good if all you want is an all-jump army.

 

My plan is to capitalize on Dante's DoA. Unless the Formations are so kick-arse, that I reconsider, I will stick to a mobile, fast jump army with the option to deep strike.

[Pascalnz]

this detachment makes an amazing dropped force, d6 less scatter..... that means you will always be in the range you need to be at. It's insanely deadly. Less worry about going off the board and not being in templane/melta range

 

my 6 furiosos in lucius pods with frags and melta is really happy about this.   but so are the stern guard and the dual pistol wielding vanguard. 

 

As cute as it is to be able to play all terminators, the power in this detachment is utilising drop pods.

 

 

unless:P....it has it's own relics and warlord chart...then who knows 

[Frater Cornelius]

this detachment makes an amazing dropped force, d6 less scatter..... that means you will always be in the range you need to be at. It's insanely deadly. Less worry about going off the board and not being in templane/melta range

 

my 6 furiosos in lucius pods with frags and melta is really happy about this.   but so are the stern guard and the dual pistol wielding vanguard. 

 

As cute as it is to be able to play all terminators, the power in this detachment is utilising drop pods.

 

 

unless:P....it has it's own relics and warlord chart...then who knows 

 

You can do that with Dante as well. He has DoA trait, which is basically the same, without the useless TDA tax.

[tsijben]

It does, the book has Warlord Charts and their own Relics!

I hope it's something nasty, because I have so many Terminators I just have to field a few.

[Phadeout]

Looks like great fun to me, 1st coy fun and games, something I've always wanted.  Nobody is forcing me to take them or not.  Just more choice, and hopefully the opportunity to try out fun things with different lists maing each game feel a little bit different and hopefully enjoyable.  If the other formations/detachments are any good I will be over the moon.

 

Obviously ymmv but I for one am happy to see stuff like this, whether it is optimal in terms of gameplay/tournaments/local meta etc.  I will still be rolling dice with silly amounts of BA Termies.  Must crack on with painting Captain Karl now..

[SonOfThunder]

Well, rerolling reserves, and pods scattering only D6, this formation detachment does have some uses ...I couldn't see past the terminators the first time around.

This formation detachment does nothing for jumpers though, that's for sure. The thing is DoA is a lot worse when it comes to alpha-striking, mainly because disembarking from the pod lets you spread, and it also lets you get into optimal positions. Plus half your pods dropping turn 1. So this formation detachment lets you do some fun podded armies. Too elite for my taste though, stern guard will die as easily as podded assaulters, but they are way too expensive.

What I'm seeing is a regular CAD or Baal detachment with the alpha-strike coming from the elite detachment, and the second wave coming through jump packs in the main detachment. That way you reroll reserves and scatter only D6 with your whole army (except the troop tax). HQ would be a terminator librarian with a bunch of stern guard. Or a terminator captain to tank for the sternguard.

Edit: Formation to detachment where appropriate.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, rerolling reserves, and pods scattering only D6, this formation does have some uses ...I couldn't see past the terminators the first time around.

This formation does nothing for jumpers though, that's for sure. The thing is DoA is a lot worse when it comes to alpha-striking, mainly because disembarking from the pod lets you spread, and it also lets you get into optimal positions. Plus half your pods dropping turn 1. So this formation lets you do some fun podded armies. Too elite for my taste though, stern guard will die as easily as podded assaulters, but they are way too expensive.

What I'm seeing is a regular CAD or Baal detachment with the alpha-strike coming from this detachment, and the second wave coming through jump packs in the main detachment. That way you reroll reserves and scatter only D6 with your whole army (except the troop tax). HQ would be a terminator librarian with a bunch of stern guard. Or a terminator captain to tank for the sternguard.

It is not a Formation. It is a detachment. Big difference.

[SonOfThunder]

Oops :)

[Guest]

 

So far we know there's this elite detachment. There's also a flesh tearers formation. 16 left. Don't know how many of those will be necron though, hopefully not 9. Formations look like a good option for the likes of you Immerstrum, because you can plug and play them in a TWC army (which I plan to do as well), but they are no good if all you want is an all-jump army.

someone's posted a leaked necron formation on reddit, so theres another one accounted for

[Karhedron]

Vaguely disappointed by the Archangels detachment. I can understand the lack of Death Company (although surely even Veterans sucumb sometimes) but the lack of Sanguinary Guard is a shame. To me the list of allowed units is too restrictive to field a decent army.

 

I am not convinced that Terminator-spam is going to be a strong build for BAs. Space Wolves (with CotGW) and Dark Angels do it better.

[SonOfThunder]

The 1st Co warlord traits / relics might make it viable on its own. Right now it can be a decent add-on to free up some elites in a more traditional detachment. Nipplewing might be solved in some kind of Dante's bodyguard formation. DC might not get any more love since with Casson and Rafen you can already do a DC-only force. Plug-in Astorath, 4 DC/DC dreads, a raven for delivery,  and you're good to go.

[Spinsanity]

 

 

Techmarines cant wear TDA too... so basically all progenoids of the veterans will be lost and all their veichles will break during campaigns without maintenance...

Who is the "genius" who wrote this crap???

 

[...]

I realise that not everybody plays 40k competitively, but it should be factored into reviews of any particular codices or supplements.

Please, this came up because of fluff concerns, NOT competitivity concerns, so competitive play doesn't have to factor in the equation, whether you want it to or not.

 

The FOC apparently represents the 1st coy; should it include an a Sang.Priest? Yeah, most definitely. Does it need a Techmarine? No, they're not part of the company.

 

But then again, the SG shouldn't have been allowed (as part of the 1st) either... (Note that the DC would represent 1st co brothers falling to the thirst juat before the battle begins, so is fine).

 

+ Edit : just saw a scan of the FOC and realized neither DC nor SG are allowed... Kind of a bummer, in a way :/

[InquisitorBlack]

Where are you getting the formation details from?

[Frater Cornelius]

Forge a Narrative, guys ;)

[tsijben]

It doesn't make any sense to have SG and DC in the 1st Company, so I'm fine with it.

There are 18 of these and 3 out of 4 armies are Blood Angels, so yeah.. Things will be fine.