SonOfThunder Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Where are you getting the formation details from? There's a link to the detachment leak in post #29 in this same thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I really want a detachment with a focus on FA slots so I properly make my Drop Pod list. Drop pods as dedicated transports don't take slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Saw this image up at BoLS http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ghJb9PQcFMA/VI57gyn22JI/AAAAAAAAlPA/V8j4o9INZn0/s1600/SnapShot208.jpg Reading the blurb on the top left (Forces of the Flesh Tearers) it mentions a special rule of the FT detachment, and it also says it has 6 FA slots. The description implies that FT units that assault have a chance to get Rage during that turn. Don't know if they lose The Red Thirst to get that, but the FT formation does keep the Red Thirst. It would be slightly inconsistent to have different rules to represent more or less the same (FT eagerness to lose their temper) Anyway, what rocks is the 6 FA slots ...doesn't mention if there's still compulsory troop slots though. The wording makes it look as if the detachment rules are also in the WD...anyone here has a WD 46 and can comment on that? Edit: Just read the info in the bottom of the image, that explains why the formation has The Red Thirst and the detachment has Explosion of Bloodlust instead. Apparently the formation displays a force led by Gabriel Seth (who can't be included in the formation btw). The FT formation doesn't seem like a good deal at all. The FT detachment could be interesting though, depending on the minimum slots. Losing the +1I is not cool though. But if you get Rage instead, it could be nice. What would suck is if the detachment allows only-jumpers, but since it's FT, it disallows Dante :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Bring your FT counts as Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Flesh Tearer Bike army, here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 you can get up to 6 furious!! 6 fragnoughts in lucius pods cost 1080 points. Add in a libby in TDA, then add what you want from another detachment like.... 1 scout squad cassor the dammed and a tech marine...and...3 more furioso dreads? or maybe take libby dreads and/or instead... DREADFULL ;P Just checking, but you do realise you can't charge the turn the Lucius Pod lands now, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10849767_317498915114533_3000209912438772415_n.jpg?oh=548eab9323e960e3d270264141af01b7&oe=553EC931&__gda__=1430393571_f944b34ebb51214b14cdec569cfb5c85 One look at that force org chart made me burst out laughing at work. It's ridiculous. Who needs Tacticals when you have Sternguard? Who needs Preds when you have Land Raiders/ Ravens? Who needs Assault squads when you have SG/DC Edit: Vanguard? Who needs to secure objectives when you can simply overrun them with SIX Furioso's! TL;DR - Charlo Needs more Dreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Bring your FT counts as Dante Dante counts-as in the FT is Gabriel Seth actually Fluffwise I don't really care, I play a DIY. I was being paranoid about GW explicitly excluding Dante himself (as in his codex entry) from being in the FT detachment, since the FT do have an official chapter master (with his own codex entry as well). Just like the vanilla codex forbids from using the different named characters with the wrong chapter. Flesh Tearer Bike army, here I come! Thought about that too, but in general if you want to go the bike route, the Khan is better. CC buffs are wasted on bikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Just like the vanilla codex forbids from using the different named characters with the wrong chapter. Always thought that was a shame... But I guess it makes sense. I'd love to be able to use He'Stan in my marines (....Or Blood Angels even!). Imagine his model in tasty red and black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 After the disappointment of the Archangels detachment, I shall avoid getting my hopes up too high for any other detachments from Exterminatus util I see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 After the disappointment of the Archangels detachment, I shall avoid getting my hopes up too high for any other detachments from Exterminatus util I see them. What're you not fond of Karhedronuk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Guys, I can barely make out the text in these formations, but what I can read looks freaking awesome and gives me great hope for the future of 40k!!! http://eltallerdeyila.blogspot.com.es/2014/12/white-dwarf-47.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I am aware you can't assault from a lucius pod. but for 50 points being able to stay embarked and shoot out is amazing! the weird 50% chance [go first and you get it in your opponents turn] to get shrouding for the pod and anything behind it is just a lovely bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thought about that too, but in general if you want to go the bike route, the Khan is better. CC buffs are wasted on bikers. Well, 6 x 3 bikers w/ 2 grav guns + MM AB takes you to 888 points (OMG! A sign from Khorne!). Assuming you have have a troop tax, 2 min-sized scout squads will take you to 998 pts. That is still enough for a generously-sized DC to back up your bikers. White Scars don't really have a DC equivalent, and Khan himself kinda sucks, so I think there's something interesting to be done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I am aware you can't assault from a lucius pod. but for 50 points being able to stay embarked and shoot out is amazing! the weird 50% chance [go first and you get it in your opponents turn] to get shrouding for the pod and anything behind it is just a lovely bonus As I said, just checking :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 After the disappointment of the Archangels detachment, I shall avoid getting my hopes up too high for any other detachments from Exterminatus util I see them. What're you not fond of Karhedronuk? Just the restrictions on the units that can be taken. I want to build a SG-themed army or possibly a DC one, neither of which is possible despite the glut of Elite slots. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thought about that too, but in general if you want to go the bike route, the Khan is better. CC buffs are wasted on bikers. Well, 6 x 3 bikers w/ 2 grav guns + MM AB takes you to 888 points (OMG! A sign from Khorne!). Assuming you have have a troop tax, 2 min-sized scout squads will take you to 998 pts. That is still enough for a generously-sized DC to back up your bikers. White Scars don't really have a DC equivalent, and Khan himself kinda sucks, so I think there's something interesting to be done here. A scout move for all your bikes is pretty cool. And they can have obsec if you make them 5 strong. But what i really meant is WS chapter tactics. They are just amazing for bikes. You can then ally astorath, a DC unit, and a scout squad ;) Not saying it can't work for BA, just that WS play that game better (as it should be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The fluff behind it is that SG/DC do not belong to the Companies but rather as a separate entity within the Chapter. The maximum you can field with that Detachment is the entire Veteran Company: "The First Company is composed of the Chapter's Space Marine Veterans, warriors with experience forged in countless battles throughout the Imperium and trained in the use of sacred suits of Terminator Armour" I would fully expect a DC/SG Formation or Detachment to be one of the many Dataslates that we will get. Edit: In case you are wondering, they have (according to lexicanum) 101 Veterans and 5 Furioso Dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 A scout move for all your bikes is pretty cool. And they can have obsec if you make them 5 strong. But what i really meant is WS chapter tactics. They are just amazing for bikes. You can then ally astorath, a DC unit, and a scout squad Not saying it can't work for BA, just that WS play that game better (as it should be) Oh what Khan does for Bike Troops is great; I just meant that he himself is a bit underwhelming. I just think there are a lot of interesting things one could do with BA bikes. Fast Preds/Vindies, podded Fragiosos, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Well, rerolling reserves, and pods scattering only D6, this formation does have some uses ...I couldn't see past the terminators the first time around. This formation does nothing for jumpers though, that's for sure. The thing is DoA is a lot worse when it comes to alpha-striking, mainly because disembarking from the pod lets you spread, and it also lets you get into optimal positions. Plus half your pods dropping turn 1. So this formation lets you do some fun podded armies. Too elite for my taste though, stern guard will die as easily as podded assaulters, but they are way too expensive. What I'm seeing is a regular CAD or Baal detachment with the alpha-strike coming from this detachment, and the second wave coming through jump packs in the main detachment. That way you reroll reserves and scatter only D6 with your whole army (except the troop tax). HQ would be a terminator librarian with a bunch of stern guard. Or a terminator captain to tank for the sternguard. It is not a Formation. It is a detachment. Big difference. What, exactly, is the difference? I'm new to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A detachment is an alternative Force Organisation Chart, with modified core slots and optional slots. They also have different 'command benefits' that vary from the traditional 'Combined Arm Detachment's' objective secured. A formation is a very specific collection of units that must be taken together to form the 'formation'. Wargear options are often fixed, but due to their inflexibility, they often have very strong benefits. For example, Space Wolves have a formation that includes two units of Wolf Guard veterans that must enter the game from reserves. On the turn they arrive, they get the twin-linked rule for free, which makes it quite a strong formation. The way my local group plays it is that formations do not take up part of a Detachment or benefit from Detachment command benefits. So in the example above, you couldn't take the wolf guard formation as part of the special 'elites' detachment in order to make use of that detachments command benefit, which is +1 WS on Wolf Guard. If you could, you would be stacking two very strong command benefits at no additional cost per model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Formations are actually a subtype of Detachments with stricter FOC, such as specific units and wargear, and they are allowed to be taken in Unbound armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The way my local group plays it is that formations do not take up part of a Detachment or benefit from Detachment command benefits. So in the example above, you couldn't take the wolf guard formation as part of the special 'elites' detachment in order to make use of that detachments command benefit, which is +1 WS on Wolf Guard. If you could, you would be stacking two very strong command benefits at no additional cost per model. Your local group plays it as per the rulebook Each detachment/formation has its own benefits, and they don't cross over. Furthermore, there's special rules that apply only to units in the same detachment as the miniature with the rule, like the DoA warlord trait. No formation can benefit from that, since a formation cannot be part of a detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Also important to note that your warlord's benefits only apply to the primary detachment/formation and wont confer to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebymster Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I am aware you can't assault from a lucius pod. but for 50 points being able to stay embarked and shoot out is amazing! the weird 50% chance [go first and you get it in your opponents turn] to get shrouding for the pod and anything behind it is just a lovely bonusAs I said, just checking :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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