Troop Choices in The Baal Strike Force

[Joasht]

I've been building loads of lists since the codex hit, but I'm still fairly torn about my Troops choices in the detachment.

I'm curious...what do you guys intend to take for your Troops?

 

The main problem with the detachment is the lack of Objective Secured, which  dramatically reduces the value of Troops choices (in my eyes). 

Right now, in my head I'm playing with the possibility of:

 

1) 2x5 Scouts; likely Snipers. Bland and likely ineffectual, but at least they are very cheap and probably the most efficient way of filling in Troop slots, short of the cheaper (but arguably less useful) 2x5 regular Scouts.

 

2) Tacticals; likely 5-man with HF and Combi-Flamer in a Razorback. Seems like a good combination, till you realize this squad is a fairly costly 155 points; an entire 95 points more than the previous option. While one may argue that it's certainly a good unit (I'd agree), I wonder if the points can be better spent on other slots.

 

3) Raphen's DC; as much as I absolutely love the option of filling in my Troops choices with Death Company, this squad is incredibly overdone with toys. Unless you plan to put a lot of stuff in front of them (which still leaves them susceptible to Deep Striking/Outflanking shenanigans), I seriously doubt they'd even make it into combat with enough bodies to be effective.

 

4) Cassor; I like this guy a lot, but he comes with a hidden Fast Attack slot tax simply because I don't see any value in a DC Dreadnought that has to walk across the table.

 

5) Outside help; take the minimum Scouts just for the sake of filling the slots, but rather than spending the extra points on killy stuff, grab some Objective Secured allies from other Codices.

 

I'm currently trending more towards option #1, but I can see the value of taking #2/3/4 with one Scout squad.

 

 

So once again, my question to you guys is: what are you guys taking for your Troops?

 

Thanks!

[Frater Cornelius]

2) is what appeals the most to me. I lament that we did not get LSS for scouts. How cool would that be? Oh right, because then GW wouldn't have sold a single BA Tac box anymore because no one in their right mind wouldn't run scouts in LSS in a Baal Detachment.

[JamesI]

Imagine a LSS scout support for a Dante army.  Reroll reserves/deep strike reduction for the LSS.

 

On topic, yes troops are diminished right now and people will be taking less and going more elite.  I prefer tacticals to scouts, so I'm going to try Rhino tacs.

[Ebsolom]

I've been running 2 Tac squads forever in my BA army, it's the fluff bunny in me. Always 10 man in Rhino/Razorback. Not the most cost effective some might say but I'm not a tourney player.

[SonOfThunder]

Podded tacs can distract till the jumpers hit. I've decided to retire my sniper scouts, they never do anything. Bolter scouts in a raven could be a decent choice too. Done it once, was ok. Neither impressed nor disappointed. Cassor can ride a raven btw ;)

[tsijben]

Cassor: He could take a Lucius Drop Pod for 50, so that is 15 points more in exchange of saving up a FA-slot.

But do you really need that FA-slot?

 

Scouts: I think you underestimate the bonuses normal Scouts get from being Blood Angels, they charge at S5, I5. I am probably going to buy 10 models.

 

Tacticals: I wouldn't put them in a Razorback. Either a Drop Pod for backfield harassment or let them guard Objectives while charging anything that gets too close.

 

Raphen DC: No. They have too many toys that I don't want.

[Calnus]

I was quite happy with running 3 pods and jumpers in the last book (though that was 2 Furiosos for alpha strike), so I think a couple pods of Tacticals would be good.  If you can get any kind of angle on a target for the bolters, they can actually fill an offensive role and require the same firepower to remove as your DC or SG that are charging up field.  Remember, target saturation has always been and will continue to be your best friend.

[Shaezus]

@Joasht

 

Do you play eternal war missions only or maelstrom only or both? Just that with maelstrom you will definitely want some fast transport or pods and tacticals are good here as they can take these as dedicated transports, so they're not using up FA or HS slots with it.

 

At the moment I'm going for at least one full tac squad. I may also use a 5-man squad for grav but I am leaning towards sternguard for this. He ten-man squad really excites me. Kitted out with heavy flamer and flamer and with a combi-flamer, power sword and meltabombs, put them in a pod and they can toast and dakka a horde unit to oblivion and still hold their ground in subsequent turns. Being I5 on the charge means an MEQ would be foolish to let my tacs live to charge on the next turn.

 

Ok so the troop section is not exactly abundant with choices but they are more solid now, in fact the new tacticals are more like space marines should be. Personally very excited by them.

[bushman101]

the lack of bodies in Raph's DC kinda hurts. The equipment loadout is fine, but being restricted to a 5 man unit will see them shot off the table too quick

[shaun03]

All scout BA army was thing back in the day. Now that with got FC bank the 10 co could make slight come back even tho its weaker this tine do assult suffering. Playing aggressive scouts might be one trick gimic, but it may suprise.

 

Planning splitting tacs in rhino and drop pod maybe 1 of each or 2 in rhino and 1 in pod. Depending what I am running.

 

Think it's too soon to tell which one will stand out between the rhino and pod. Comes down to synchronize with the rest of list.

[TheSauce]

I'm thinking about running 2x10 tactical squads, in rhinos. Probably heavy flamer, grav gun and combi-grav.

 

I see it as two pretty tough units that can clear/take objectives and can throw out some grav shots at tough targets that my jump units can't handle or want softened up.

 

It's expensive, but a decent number of bodies that could charge into combat if needed (and hit pretty hard with S5 and I5).

[Frater Cornelius]

You do realize that BA tacs are allowed two heavy weapons. Twin-HF all the way man :D

[Deschenus Maximus]

I'd go with 2 min-sized BP/CCW scout squads, personaly. Use them to go after soft backfield targets like Devastators and the like.

 

If you want to improve their utility, give the sergeants meltabombs. If you want to splurge a bit more, give them combi-gravs; since they can't charge first turn anyway, you'll have a good reason to sit still with the sarge to get the most out of the salvo weapon while the rest of the guys surge forward.

[Silverson]

I'm going to be playing a game on Saturday where I will be trying out a squad of sniper scouts with camo cloaks and a 10 man tactical squad with combi melta, melta and heavy flamer in a pod. Planning on combat squad'ing the tac and dropping them both in a pod hopefully to pop a vehicle and either flame the guys inside of if possible a squad near, then my opponent will have 2 units to deal with (easier to kill but will take more units to kill them). That's is all a distraction so my land raider with Mephiston and X(thinking dc) and my jump units can get up the field safer.

[tsijben]

You do realize that BA tacs are allowed two heavy weapons. Twin-HF all the way man

False ;)

5-man squad: 1 Heavy or 1 Special.

10-man squad: 1 Heavy and 1 Special

[Frater Cornelius]

My bad. I skipped the 'and' :D

[The Yncarne]

I will be running 5 man plasma squads inside TLAC razorbacks because I already have the models and the TLAC is my best bet for anti-air. This is not as cheap as it was with assault squads in the previous codex, but those days are over.

 

I urge the OP to consider a storm raven to transport Crassor and either a squad of bolter scouts or CC scouts. Having the storm raven gives you options for meeting your troops requirement in Baal strike force. The scouts don't cost much if they're lost and you won't feel as cheated as sniper scouts that fail to do anything all game. At least the CC scouts could benefit from furious charge.

[Phadeout]

There will be a 10 man flamers on everything Tac Squad, almost certainly in a pod rather than a rhino in all of my lists going forward I think.  Other choice is probably going to be scouts in a Raven.

 

Although that WD data sheet (or whatever the correct term is) with 3 ravens and 3 tac squads sounds hilarious if you can have turn 1 reserves so who knows what I'll ultimately end up with!

[Eisenhorn31388]

Quick question... Is there anything saying that you can or can't take more than one Baal Strikeforce? It'd be kinda cool to take two so that you get the +1 initiative army wide instead of in just the formation.

[Captain Caine 24th]

I would go either very low points cost and have the troops as a mere objective grabbing unit, or incorporate your troops in to a full on threat.

 

Scouts...

2x 5 man scout squad, with ammo cloaks and staying in reserve might be a little more survivable. The idea of scouts bringing in deep strikers has some merit. I would say this could be dangerous as many things ignore cover and have AP4. LOS blocking terrain and cloaks, or a lot of small scout units may be necessary to keep this strategy alive. Sniper rifles just lack a real punch most often. I think there is a use for them, and I think they could be fun. The BS 3 really isn't great. Though the occasional threat of a missile launcher or heavy bolter with new ammunition might provide some behind the lines harassment. The above comments mention S5 I5 on the charge. This with the extra hand weapon means these little dudes might pack a surprise for an enemy.

 

Tacticals...

Tacticals in rhinos would be fairly survivable really. Destroying vehicles can be difficult without a lot of shots. Even then they've got a 3+ save if they have to emergency disembark. Smoke launchers, psychic invulnerable saves, good deployment, or just simply having more scary things on the field for the enemy to shoot at can really increase the durability of those rhino squads. And even if those tacticals aren't all that mean by themselves, they certainly can be if arriving en masse or with close support. There's a lot of tactical flexibility with a tactical squad to take into account as well (combat squads, using the rhino as cover, objective secured fast vehicle, tank shocking enemies on objectives, etc). And I think that flexibility is really what you're paying points for. Whereas the scouts option is probably limited to just helping deep strike or capturing the backfield objective. Destroying the enemy or really drawing lots of fire is going to be a job for other units in your army.

 

Now that being said, walking around the table is slow, both in grabbing objectives and getting into short ranged fire fights. However, if you have some kind of alpha strike in mind, like 4 dreadnoughts/sternguard/ or probably 5 man assault melta squads now, the enemy is going to have bigger problems than shooting a simple tactical squad waltzing around the battlefield. Likewise, an AV13 wall of tanks might be something to walk behind. Something to consider might be that tacticals don't need to move much if you're planning on a drop heavy army that otherwise can move fast. This new DOA seems to work for skimmers and jumpers, so if you've saturated the field with them, and the token storm raven, maybe it's ok to have your tactical sitting in a building somewhere or supporting your line where needed. 

 

I suppose points might be a problem too. If you are going for a drop pod list, you're going to want to hurt as much as possible right away. In this way paying points for troops sitting in rhinos somewhere may be counter productive. At the same time maybe you have rhinos and vindicators rushing up the field, holding the table while pods come down in close support. I can see that working. And I should say that I don't see why tacticals in a pod wouldn't be decent. I mean I think you'd be better off with assault squads in pods, but 10 more marines up front, in the enemy's face is not a bad thing.

 

If you're going to do something crazy like put any of the above in a Stormraven, for God's sake be careful. There's a lot of S7 skyfire out there or worse.

 

Alright, that being said good luck out there. I look forward to seeing how you guys manage this in the future games you play. 

[Joasht]

Some great points here, and thanks for all who have contributed. Just to clarify, I was just brainstorming some ideas rather than seeking list building advice; just throwing some of my ideas out there and seeing what else came back :)

 

I've noticed a number of suggestions to use a Stormraven to carry Cassor .....but man, I'm paranoid about carrying expensive stuff on my flying powder keg.

 

I'll likely be going Tacticals for the immediate future until I get some Scouts painted. I'm personally also fairly intrigued by the idea of having, say, two 10-man Scout squads with BP + CCW. A mere 220 points for twenty bodies that I can infiltrate (hopefully in cover), and use them like how I use my landspeeders: Ignore them? I'll make you regret it (30 S5 I5 attacks on the charge is pretty glorious for cheap fodder); Try to kill them? Great, less guns against the rest of my army.

[ContemptuousAngel]

I've been building loads of lists since the codex hit, but I'm still fairly torn about my Troops choices in the detachment.

I'm curious...what do you guys intend to take for your Troops?

 

The main problem with the detachment is the lack of Objective Secured, which  dramatically reduces the value of Troops choices (in my eyes). 

Right now, in my head I'm playing with the possibility of:

 

1) 2x5 Scouts; likely Snipers. Bland and likely ineffectual, but at least they are very cheap and probably the most efficient way of filling in Troop slots, short of the cheaper (but arguably less useful) 2x5 regular Scouts.

 

2) Tacticals; likely 5-man with HF and Combi-Flamer in a Razorback. Seems like a good combination, till you realize this squad is a fairly costly 155 points; an entire 95 points more than the previous option. While one may argue that it's certainly a good unit (I'd agree), I wonder if the points can be better spent on other slots.

 

3) Raphen's DC; as much as I absolutely love the option of filling in my Troops choices with Death Company, this squad is incredibly overdone with toys. Unless you plan to put a lot of stuff in front of them (which still leaves them susceptible to Deep Striking/Outflanking shenanigans), I seriously doubt they'd even make it into combat with enough bodies to be effective.

 

4) Cassor; I like this guy a lot, but he comes with a hidden Fast Attack slot tax simply because I don't see any value in a DC Dreadnought that has to walk across the table.

 

5) Outside help; take the minimum Scouts just for the sake of filling the slots, but rather than spending the extra points on killy stuff, grab some Objective Secured allies from other Codices.

 

I'm currently trending more towards option #1, but I can see the value of taking #2/3/4 with one Scout squad.

 

 

So once again, my question to you guys is: what are you guys taking for your Troops?

 

Thanks!

3) Put them in a storm raven? Or can you not do that? (I am waiting on my copy of that book so I can use the DC from Deathstorm)

[Joasht]

 

3) Put them in a storm raven? Or can you not do that? (I am waiting on my copy of that book so I can use the DC from Deathstorm)

 

You can; just for clarification, the Stormraven will not be a dedicated transport.

[ContemptuousAngel]

It never is. Sad face.

If we got Stormravens (and considering the wolves got Stormwolves I cant understand why not) as Dedicated transports I'd own 4 of them.

[Deschenus Maximus]

It never is. Sad face.

If we got Stormravens (and considering the wolves got Stormwolves I cant understand why not) as Dedicated transports I'd own 4 of them.

 

True. I'm fine with losing ASM as Troops from a fluff standpoint, but seriously, no Dedicated Ravens? Not even for Termies? The bloody pups HATE flying and EVERY unit save for long fangs can take a DT flyer! What in the blue Hell, GW?