Thing that will need FAQ

[Shaezus]

But jump infantry are still infantry

No they are not.

Oh yes they are.

Clue: it's in the word that follows 'jump'

Clue 2: that word is....'infantry'

Hence I think it can be quite safely stated that jump infantry are infantry. Unless of course you can explain how in this case 'infantry' does not mean 'infantry'.

[Jolemai]

Infantry and Jump Infantry are two separate unit types. Just like Infantry (character) and Jump Infantry (Character) are two separate types of Character. In other publications you often see when a item of equipment is purchased it states that they change the unit type from Infantry to Jump Infantry (or whatever, depending on what the item was).

 

They even have separate entries in the BRB.

[Frater Cornelius]

One of the better ways to use wings is to let allied Grav cents jump.

[Jolemai]

One of the better ways to use wings is to let allied Grav cents jump.

 

You had to go there, didn't you? Now Ishagu is going to play Blood Angels :p

[Quixus]

Where is the ambiguity with firing the frag cannon? You get 2d3 hits on overwatch.

It's here. With all due respect Quixus, you (and the rest of us) are nothing more than a random on the internet. You can beat about it being 2D6 until the cows come home but until it's official, people/groups/tournaments will rule it either one way or the other.

I wasn't about to say that I have any more authority than any other guy on the internet. I simply did not see any ambiguity in the rules before. A clarification by GW would be helpful.

But jump infantry are still infantry

No they are not.

Oh yes they are.

Clue: it's in the word that follows 'jump'

Clue 2: that word is....'infantry'

Hence I think it can be quite safely stated that jump infantry are infantry. Unless of course you can explain how in this case 'infantry' does not mean 'infantry'.

First of all Jump Infantry is not the same word as infantry, thus they are not the same unless a rule explicitly tells us that they are equivalent. Secondly look at the transport rules.

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

So we have differing rules for the two unit types. Thus they cannot be the same.

[Frater Cornelius]

One of the better ways to use wings is to let allied Grav cents jump.

You had to go there, didn't you? Now Ishagu is going to play Blood Angels

He won't. At least not for that reason. Wings are ML2 and random roll. BA and SW both have FA drop pods that Cents + Psyker (probably Tiggy) can embark on and come down. Why bother with wings.

[Ushtarador]

A dreadnought is a walker, but it is still a vehicle. Jump infantry can jump, but it is still infantry.

Not sure what you're getting at, so we can't use wings if there's a sergeant in the unit because he's not infantry but a character?

 

The frag cannon RAW only gets 1d3 overwatch, because it is a single weapon. The rulebook doesn't care how many shots the flamer has. I don't know what GWs intention is, so I will stick to 1d3 until they clear it up.

[Jolemai]

A dreadnought is a walker, but it is still a vehicle. Jump infantry can jump, but it is still infantry.

Not sure what you're getting at, so we can't use wings if there's a sergeant in the unit because he's not infantry but a character?

 

 

Was that aimed a me? Only a (for example) Tactical Sergeant is Infantry (Character) and therefore Infantry. Whilst you are correct that a Walker is a subclass of Vehicle, Jump Infantry is not a subclass of Infantry.

 

For reference, the unit types are:

 

Infantry

Bikes and Jetbikes

Artillery

Jump Units

Jet Pack Units

Beasts

Cavalry

Monstrous Creatures

Flying Monstrous Creatures

Gargantuan & Flying Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures

Vehicles (which then has it's own subsets)

[Ushtarador]

I don't have my codex right here, but I am very sure that nowadays Jump Infantry is a specialization of Infantry, just like Walker is a specialization of vehicle :) I can look for a quote in the evening if noone else finds it in the meantime.

[Blindhamster]

jet pack units and jump units are both jump infantry normally too right?

[Reyner]

The only thing I really want in a future FAQ is where the chuff they put Dead Mans Hand. Tycho is just utter pants now, just his bolt pistol and combi-melta. 

[Orblivion]

The only thing I really want in a future FAQ is where the chuff they put Dead Mans Hand. Tycho is just utter pants now, just his bolt pistol and combi-melta. 

 

Its gone, they don't FAQ things like that.

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Oh yes they are.

 

Clue: it's in the word that follows 'jump'

 

Clue 2: that word is....'infantry'

 

Hence I think it can be quite safely stated that jump infantry are infantry. Unless of course you can explain how in this case 'infantry' does not mean 'infantry'.

 

First of all Jump Infantry is not the same word as infantry, thus they are not the same unless a rule explicitly tells us that they are equivalent. Secondly look at the transport rules.

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

So we have differing rules for the two unit types. Thus they cannot be the same.

 

 

Go read the entry for Jump Units in the brb. "Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry."

 

The transport vehicle rules you quoted SPECIFICALY has to mention that Jump and Jet Infantry can't ride in a vehicle because if they did not, they would be able to due to the way the Jump unit rules function.

[Morollan]

But jump infantry are still infantry

No they are not.

Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

Whether that allows Wings to work or not, I'm not entirely sure.

[Spinsanity]

I am pretty sure that Jump Infantry are simply a subtype of Infantry.

 

Here's my reasonning :

 

The Angel's Wing

<skip the fluff>

A model with the Angel's Wing gains the Jump unit type as described in Warhamm...

It doesn't change from Infantry to Jump Infantry, it simply gains Jump.

 

+ Edit : I guess I should have read the rest of the thread too, since there were alot of better arguments put out already :)

[Jolemai]

Jump Infantry thread opened in the OR forum

[Shaezus]

@ Quixus and Jolemai - sorry I am on my phone and using the quote function takes so long it turns my hair white.

 

Infantry / jump infantry; it's the old technical interlude thing. Jump infantry are infantry with jump packs which in plain English means they are still infantry. Of course the BRB unit classifications do not mention this, so we have again that Schrodiger's cat situation.

 

Seriously though this is big because if I can't use wings on Dante and his SG, I will have to reconsider my list altogether.

 

As for frag cannons on overwatch, every time this happened in the past the frag cannon fired twice i.e. 2D3 hits. Other weapons get to fire their full complement of shots e.g. Heavy bolter = 3 overwatch shots. Obviously the frag cannon is unique in being a template weapon that fires twice, but just because this is not specifically addressed does not mean it only fires once. Sure, it's a roundabout discussion and we are but mere mortals but restricting it to one overwatch shot is verging on anal IMO.

[Reyner]

 

The only thing I really want in a future FAQ is where the chuff they put Dead Mans Hand. Tycho is just utter pants now, just his bolt pistol and combi-melta. 

 

Its gone, they don't FAQ things like that.

 

I know but part of me hopes they just forgot to paste that part in. 

[Calnus]

So, question about Wings--You know we can still cast a pyschic power on an embarked unit, if the psyker is part of that unit, right?  So what happens if I cast wings on my own unit, and I happen to be inside a transport at the time?  Do I move the whole transport?  Do I move the unit outside the transport? (I'm about 99% sure the latter isn't possible)

 

Take the example of 5 tacs and a Libby inside a Rhino.  I'd say its a legal cast, and you move the Rhino 12".  Or if you had the same group inside a Stormraven, then you could move 12" but not change facing perhaps?

 

I liked the rule better when it changed your type to Jump.  Made more sense anyways...

[Ushtarador]

Can't cast any blessings or maledictions inside a transport (only witchfires), and can't target units inside transport from outside.

[Valerian]

Jump is now a modification, and so Jump Infantry is now a specific type of Infantry.  Please note that this wasn't always the case.  Back in 5e (maybe also 6e, but I don't recall and am not near my rulebooks) they were separate and distinct unit types, and had to be treated as completely different.  Several of you are still stuck on the old classification/catagorization system, whereas the current one treats 'jump' as a modifier to a base unit type.

 

Best,

 

V

[Xenith]

So, question about Wings--You know we can still cast a pyschic power on an embarked unit, if the psyker is part of that unit, right?

Nope, read the section on casting powers in transports :)

If you think you have something that needs an FAQ, read it again. Then read it a third time. If you are still unsure, then ask for advice

[Raktra]

My personal FAQ hope - the Furioso's halberd gets "specialist weapon" and the bonus attack pops back.

[Deschenus Maximus]

My personal FAQ hope - the Furioso's halberd gets "specialist weapon" and the bonus attack pops back.

 

Why? It's a dread. It gets the bonus attack regardless of the fact the halberd is not a Specialist Weapon.

 

"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons bla bla bla"

 

A dread never gains +1 attack for fighting with two weapons; rather, they gain +1 attack for every Melee weapon they have beyond the first.

[Raktra]

I'd still like a clarification (or rather, an official "told you so") so I don't have to argue with people. Especially the type of "BUT THAT'S NOT FAAAIIIIR" people I'm currently stuck with.