New Codex destroyed my army just as I finished it...

[ÆtherOwl]

*wanna apologize for the picture quality, all I own is this horrid tablet camera. Sorry

 

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I take a very long time to build an army. Firstly its expensive, then all the assembling and painting. I started back around 2011, had set a goal to create a fully painted 2000pt. Blood Angels army. Recently finished it a couple months ago, after almost 4 years of slow collecting and painting each peice. Check it out directly below.

 

http://imgur.com/ADBfGE7

 

Now just as I was beginning to play with it in its completed entirety. It became totally obsolete as a battle forged army.

 

2 HQ's turned into 5

3 troops (all my troops) choices became Elite and Fast Attack choices only

2 FA became 2 more HS choices

 

I can't help but feel like I got totally screwed I now have to spend at least another couple years if not longer to have an army ready and up to my satisfaction.

 

To make matters worse my brothers have been getting quite competetive with their armies one Dark Angel, one Space Wolves. Every once in awhile we get together and have a few games, my own armies have always been more thematic, then practical. However since I'm being force to create a completely new army I want something new... Now I just want blood. Something deadly and very competitive.

 

I have picked out the models I've decided to keep as my bones, and very much interested in some ideas from the community here (someone told me it was the best BA community around :P ) as to some build ideas. So here is what I'm keeping...

 

http://imgur.com/xqnKvWg

 

As you can see Ive combined the sanguinary guard and in essence made a Jumper Deathstar I guess, is that even viable? I've always been advised against it. Plus my HS slots are completely filled now, no more ravens :( and just to make this a legal battle forged army I need troops. Which it looks like Games Workshop finally bullied me into buying and making at least two tactical squads. Say I get two 10man tacticals with rhinos, that leave me in the area of 300pts left over till I reach my 2000pt army again, I do have all my FA and 3 Elite choices left though. Any strategists out there see any weak spots in my new army plan willing to help?

 

Or how about anyone else, I'm sure lots of us had their old armies become completely obsolete. Also I'm new since 5th edition, do changes this drastic happen every codex update?

[Joasht]

Or how about anyone else, I'm sure lots of us had their old armies become completely obsolete. Also I'm new since 5th edition, do changes this drastic happen every codex update?

 

I tell this to every new 40k player: be prepared to change your entire army in every edition if you intend to stay with this game. It doesn't always happen, but having been in this game since 2nd, I can say that you need to be prepared for it.

[Jolemai]

If you purchase some troop choices, nothing is stopping you from running two Combined Arms Detachments (CADs) which will enable you to utilise the majority of your collection. Simply put, don't despair. Let the new Codex sink in, play some games using proxies (if possible) and allow your collection to evolve. For what it's worth, many of my lists now require changing but I'm excited by the challenge :)

 

As for your final question, it honestly depends. The change from second to third edition was huge for everyone. Third to fourth saw some things added and our way of playing changed. From fourth to fifth, the focus went away from a "Rhino Rush" to "Jump Armies" (granted not everyone played like that but you get the idea). Even with the fifth edition book, we've had to evolve through three changes to the core rules which have changed how we play. Nothing to be overly worried about though :)

[Brother Dallo]

I can understand your frustration at having your army composition messed with. If you're serious about getting tactical squads and rhinos, I'd suggest ebay. If you don't mind reclaiming models, you can get tacticals for dirt cheap. Also, with the Nid/BA boxes being parted out, you can get New on sprue death company reasonably cheaply to add the blood angel flavour to your squads. You could look into buying he tactical squad from dark vengeance, if you're handy with a knife for scraping off all of the Dark Angel iconography. Personally I' man fan of getting badly painted models for DIRT cheap, then stripping the paint.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Dallo

[SonOfThunder]

Wait at least till Exterminatus hits. Maybe a combination of the new formations and detachments will make more/all of your initial build battle-forged. So far there's been no SG-focused formations/detachments, and I think something will come for them. If you want to go more competitive, take a look at the 3tac-3raven formation. You can still fit Dante + priest + 10 SG + 2 Baal preds + 2 minimum scout squads in 2000 points (may have to do some trimming ). And the Dante star gets to not scatter and assault the turn it deepstrikes if your opponent doesn't bring 2 of the ravens down and your reserves rolls are statistical. Fun surprise for your brothers

Even if your army was invalidated, the dex competitiveness was buffed, you'll be happy for that if your bros have gone that route.

Edit: There's little hope for your ASM with razorback though, if you want them on foot you have to take a rhino or a pod.

[Ushtarador]

Despair not, you should be able to run your army with minimal adjustments, and it should be a lot stronger too now!

Dante is a lord of war now, so you can field him, a librarian and a sanguinary priest. The arms on the dreadnought are easily swappable, so you could e.g. exchange the force weapon for a frag cannon and run it as a regular Furioso (buy him a drop pod, it's awesome!).

To fill the troop tax, you could get some tacticals (the new sculpts are awesome by the way), or if you want to stay really cheap, just get 10 scouts! A very strong and cheap option is to put scouts with ccw+bolt pistol in the stormraven and charge something in the last turns, they have a lot of attacks and I5 with our unique detachment!

A 10man unit of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest should be a strong unit now, I would definitely try it. They are fast and Dante is a good tank, and they will smash anything on the charge, I would test it a bit, it should give quite good results.

To expand further after you decided on some troops, I would advise to get 3 drop pods for the furioso and the ASM, dropping 4 meltas for 135pts is awesome! Then maybe paint some death company, they fit the background and they hit like a ton of bricks.

[Jolemai]

Edit: There's little hope for your ASM with razorback though, if you want them on foot you have to take a rhino or a pod.

 

Been trying to find a work around for this too. Right now it's a case of fielding a ten man squad and putting them in a Rhino. Next, purchase a separate Razorback, combat squad the RAS and put half into the Razor... Urgh.

 

Fortunately, these excess Razors can be recycled elsewhere as either Rhinos or for use with Tacticals, Devastors, Veterans (both flavours) and Death Company (to name but a few).

[BorisBC]

Does it really need to be battle forged? As an unbound army you are hardly running a cheesy list and the BF benefits are nice, but not really deal breakers. Especially if you now need to fork out time and money to get it battle forged.

 

Personally I've got a full battle company, but assault squad heavy, so I'm annoyed as well.

 

As others have said though, there have been some sweet looking formations coming out that might make a difference.

[Jolemai]

There is that. The above army is still completely legal in that respect so the question is, does Objective Secured really mean that much to you?

[Dafoo]

I understand your frustration, GW FAQed Killed or changed every list I had for every GW game I played in under two months. There is a lot of room for editing your Blood Angels though and to be honest my main gripe with this book is our lack of fliers. We won out overall this dex is just a LOT of hard choices. DanteStar seems like a good idea now and you can Double force Org 20 5 Man scouts to play a similar list with more campers for objectives on your backfield. Considering the points drop you should have enough for this with minimal changes other than dropping a few upgrades and adding scouts. My 1850 list dropped to 1530 so that is a lot of room. Also you can do Rhino Tac Squad shenanigans To get Razors for Assault Squads just deploy the unit in the other boxes. Sit down with the book for a while and figure out how you want to move forward double force org seems the best route to me.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Its a good looking force mate.

 

Looking at the force though, its not hit you too badly.

You don't need 2 priests now as you can run SG in 10 man Squads, Dante is a LOW so you can take him in the Baal Formation to give Extra bang for your buck.

You can still take the Librarian or the Libarian Dread (they are HQ now as well).

 

Baal Predators are still good as are Razorbacks.

I think you would be better off with 2 Razorbacks with Lasscannon and Twin linked Plasma Guns with Heavy Flamer Squads inside for troop.

 

Storm Ravens are still Golden so I would say look at putting some of your Spare points into a 10 man DC sqad with Leemartes in a Raven or with jump packs.

Remember sir, jump packs are where its all at now. ;)

[the jeske]

yeah, but razors can't be taken by RAS. That is rather brutal for old dex BA players as they offten had 3-4 of those. And you won't be using more then 2 for mini tacs under the new dex[and you would realy want to use tacs for that. if someone takes troops as tax naked scouts are probably better].

 

baals or preds are , technicly the same, but when you can't run 4-5 of them without multi CaD and the cheap razor RAS they kind of a drop in usability to all other sm armies preds[aka not used].

 

Lemmy takes up an important elite slot and eats points that could be spent on an HQ.

 

The transition is no way an easy one.

[skyst]

I'm in the same boat as you, ÆtherOwl. My typical mech list included 4-6 Assault Squads in Razorbacks, 2-3 Baals, 2 Vindicators and a Predator. I also have 3 Land Raiders that I didn't use as often, but they're there. I guess you could say I like tanks.

 

I bought all those kits over the years because I could use them in a fairly competitive force. Unbound is silly. I'm just crossing my fingers for a mech detachment with some sort of thematic army rule.

[BrainFireBob]

Seconding what quite a few others said, plus my own two bits.

 

1) In 40K, I think it's best to build a fluff army- or always have a fluff army available- for this reason. I don't mean you need to build a battle company, but I do mean a Marine army needs at least 10 bodies of Tac Marines/Scouts and a Captain available. Eldar need a  Farseer and some Guardians, Dark Eldar an Archon and some Warriors, etc. They'll never invalidate those being valid selections, and it means you are never boned by an edition change.

 

2) I've personally put the last few years into what I call "edition proofing" my armies- magnets everywhere! It's a worthwhile time investment and fairly easy to do upfront- the magnets themselves are expensive, and getting the arms can be a pain, but it's like #1 on steroids- you can always flex your "guaranteed legal" core.

 

Given the cost, it's not that much extra, and prevents some of the angst. I've been burned a few times myself; this is my solution.

 

Also, don't rip your old squads apart- you'll probably put them back with the next new edition. Magnetize or just shelf and model new.

[Ishagu]

Sell a few models, buy a few more.

 

Codex is more fluffy and far more competitive now than the last one. Lore wise Ba don't have more assault marines than tactical Marines.

[Red-beard]

I guess I don't see a problem. Yes, there are maybe 2 models you won't be able to field now and yes, you will need to purchase a few boxes of models and paint them, but that is a small change.

Here is how I see your army fielding under the new codex:

HW:

Furioso Librarian, Librarian, two Sanguinary Priests w/ jump pack (pick two of these four in each game)

Elite:

10x Sanguinary Guard

Troops:

10-man tac squad w/ heavy flamer and melta (yes, you will need to buy 1 box of the new tacticals and paint them, combat squad them, put 5 in the razorback and 5 in the storm raven or on foot holding an objective)

5-man squad of scouts w/ sniper rifles (yes you will need to buy 1 box of five scouts and paint them)

Fast:

Assault marines w/o jump packs (Rhino or drop pod as dedicated transport, you will need to buy and paint this)

Razorback

Heavy:

Baal Predator

Baal Predator

Storm Raven

LoW:

Dante

That list will put you around 1700-1850 points depending on what units/upgrades you select. You need to buy three boxes (snipers, tac marines, and either a rhino or drop pod). In total, that's about $130-$140 (or much much less if you get good deals on used models on ebay). Not bad, really. An alternate suggestion to the tacticals would be to just buy two boxes of scouts and call it a day. Ten total new models to paint, about $70. If the money is an immediate issue, just use your assault marines as "counts as" scouts or tac marines and play two 5-man troop units with those until you can buy the correct models. People in this game know that your codex was just updated and will give you the benefit of the doubt....no issue proxying.

Yes, you will have a couple models that you can't field in every game (HQs), but you'll have options....and having options is a good thing. As you grow your army beyond what I mentioned above, my suggestion for your next purchase would be Death Company w/ jump packs. You'll have lots of fun with those .

Two last suggestions.....

1) This game is not a static game, the rules, meta, and fluff progress over time. It's going to happen again when 8E comes out and again when this new codex gets updated in ~4 years. It's best to just accept that as a fact and plan for it. In that light, going forward, you may want to consider magnetizing options on your models, especially the larger more expensive ones (ike vehicles).

2) Get out there and play! I understand the urge to have a "complete and fully painted" army before you field it....I really do. But, like you, my time is limited. If I waited until every last model was painted to my satisfaction, I'd never play a game. Buy those two-three boxes I suggested, assemble them in a day, prime them black and you're good to go! Then, slowly paint those models over time on days when you can't find a game.

[Ishagu]

The army in the pic is very pretty by the way. Adding a tactical squad won't be so bad. You should be excited that the wonderful looking units you've selected are generally much better now.

 

Heck, you can buy one and run two small squads. You have the bits inside to make two pimped out sgts and all the special weapons (and a few heavy) you would need :-)

 

-5 man tac squad, Combi flamer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod (or meltas to scare tanks)

 

-5 man tac squad, Combi Plasma, Plasma Gun, Razorback (use your rb, it's a great transport with the fast rule!)

 

Just an example. These will actually bolster the army and thematically fit in with hitting fast and hard.

Also, Dante is simply fantastic now. You should definitely keep him with the Sanguinary guard and keep a jump priest with them in a unit of 10! :-D

 

Keep your Assault Marines, the Raven can make a fine transport for them!

 

 

Don't be disheartened. You'll enjoy playing the army and it won't take long to make it battle forged once more. Don't forget the new BA exclusive detachment. Your sanguinary guard and Dante will be hitting a lot harder and faster now. Trust me, you'll really appreciate how much of a buff this is when you play a game or two

[Ishagu]

If you want super competitive units consider the following additions:

 

-5 man Bike Squad, Sgt with Combi Grav, 2 Grav Guns

 

Cheap and effective against elite infantry, weak infantry, Monstrous creatures and even vehicles of all types.

 

-5 man assault squad, Gunslinger Sgt with 2 inferno pistols, 2 Meltas, Drop Pod.

 

Very Cheap, hits very hard, Dante makes the pod even more accurate

 

 

 

Hope this is some inspiration :-)

 

Also, if you want to skip on painting multiple models you can get Cassor the Damned as a troop choice. He's a dc dread and can ride in the Raven. A Libby casting Quickening on him can make him into a Knight Titan killing monster

[DexC]

 

Or how about anyone else, I'm sure lots of us had their old armies become completely obsolete. Also I'm new since 5th edition, do changes this drastic happen every codex update?

 

I tell this to every new 40k player: be prepared to change your entire army in every edition if you intend to stay with this game. It doesn't always happen, but having been in this game since 2nd, I can say that you need to be prepared for it.

 

 

Yeah, this is pretty much the immutable law of 40K. GW will change up almost any rule you can think of. Over the time I've played, allies & psychic phase have disappeared and reappeared, force composition has gone from percentages to force org chart to however the hell it works now. If it worked well competitively, or was common in the previous edition, it's pretty common for it to be nerfed to hell and back or removed as an option. Worth remembering that it's your hobby though, you don't have to keep running on GW's hamster wheel. Play whatever ruleset you like, you can find people playing Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic, Blood Bowl and so on using various rulesets, no reason 40K needs to be any different. As already said, magnets are also uber-helpful.

 

Codex is more fluffy and far more competitive now than the last one. Lore wise Ba don't have more assault marines than tactical Marines.

 

Sergeant: Captain, we've found the traitor guard. They're dug in behind fortifications, with a dozen battlecannons pointed in our direction. Walking into that would be suicide, but a massed jump pack assault over the fortifications and we'll surely carry the day.

Captain: Afraid not. Three assault squads is all we can do without becoming mysteriously worse at claiming ground.

Sergeant: Curses! Seems odd, given our proud record of jump pack assaults and noted love of flight. Can we not have some of our tactical brothers draw chainswords and jump packs from the armoury? They've served time in assault squads before after all?

Captain: Outrageous! You need to start thinking of something more fitting that the codex permits, like Dante and Mephiston leading ten scouts. Or maybe we could drive towards the colossal firepower across open ground in our light transports. That could work.

Sergeant: OK....couldn't we just ask the 8th company for aid? That whole company of assault brethren would surely be usef-

Captain: HERESY! Chaplain! *Sound of bolt pistol being drawn*

[Xenith]

Or, instead of going with an exceptionally niche, hyper themed army, go for one that has a wider range in units?

 

I'm sorry for all those that don't own tactical marines, I dont know whether you dont like the models or what, but your jumper army is just 2 squads of scouts (110pts) from being a legal combined arms. It is already legal in unbound format.

[Ishagu]

Or, instead of going with an exceptionally niche, hyper themed army, go for one that has a wider range in units?

 

I'm sorry for all those that don't own tactical marines, I dont know whether you dont like the models or what, but your jumper army is just 2 squads of scouts (110pts) from being a legal combined arms. It is already legal in unbound format.

The points the Army has saved from just the Sanguinary guard almost pays for the two scout squads...

[Xenith]

If you had 10 DC with jump packs in your army last time (350), their point reduction (now 230) allows you to buy two whole squads of scouts, and still have spare points for a combi weapon.

 

Assault marines are 20pts cheaper per 10 man unit. 

 

The points saved on sanguinary guard, death co, van vets etc make your army way under points, which is what "screws it" more.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

One word my friend: unbound. Your army will work almost exactly as it did... i might add corbulo for the +1I bubble then call it a day

[tsijben]

But then you are paying 120 points to 'counter' the loss of The Red Thirst.

In that case you're better of paying for 2x 5 Scouts or something.

 

This thread, however, seems to be more about the models the TS has.

In which case I would advice to wait a few more days and ask us if Exterminatus has anything to fix your issue before buying new models.

 

Bad news: At the moment, you cannot field that collection.

Good news: You could field it before, but you'd probably lose; The new Codex seems to have a lot better odds.

[ÆtherOwl]

Damn a lot more information here then I thought there would be, thanks everyone.

 

Thinking I'm just going to be patient and hope for some new detachments, formations, supplements ext. As some of you have mentioned already, especially since I'm torn between tacticals and scouts. If I didn't need them to be battleforged, I wouldn't be choosing either of them.

 

Overall I guess I'm more disappointed in the fact I never had a chance to play my army 5th edition army in 5th edition :P and by the time it was finished it wasn't legal at all (at least legal as I had imagined, with scoring units to steal objectives in the closing turns of games, not unbound).

 

But hey even I'm starting to just sound like a gripping noob to myself, sounds like these sorts of events are to be expected. On the bright side I will just have a larger more versatile army, due to the fact I will be needing to buy more models (evil fun GW ploy) to stay battle forged with my brothers. Instead of owning a predictable stagnant army like the one I own now.

 

Anyways, PATIENTS YOU MUST HAVE... Is the answer for now I guess :P and thanks for all the ideas!