Captain Antiochus Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 So my friend and I have an argument. Maelstrom. He has a tactical objective and it is a mysterious objective...it was also rolled as a sabotage. Okay so, he has 1 model left, that dies on the sabotage.. does he still collect the victory point even though his model/unit dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What does it say on the Tactical Objective card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Antiochus Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 It was just the secure objective x card. I say logically if you die, you can't hold an objective ... however he says under page 137 of the BRB on achieving tactical objectives it states victory points are added to the VP pool. So.... if he dies, can he still claim the victory points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (Btw, I'm asking because I don't have the cards infront of me) Does it not specify when the VP is claimed? If it's at the end of the turn then no, if it's upon claiming, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Secure Objective gives you 1 Victory Point if you control the Objective at the end of the turn. "You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it." At the end of the turn the model was dead and removed, not within 3" of the Objective Marker, so no Victory Point is earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Page 137 in the first paragraph states that you claim the victory point immediately, which tells me it happens before anything else including sabotage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 First paragraph of what? We don't all use the print editions. It was one of these objective types he was claiming he'd achieved, right? Type: Capture & Control/Take & Hold/Storm & Defend A vital objective has been identified in your vicinity. You are ordered to hold it at any cost. Score 1 Victory Point if you control Objective Marker X at the end of your turn. No arguing with that. He moved onto the Objective and died. At the end of his turn, there was no model controlling it, therefore no victory point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspecti Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Page 137 in the first paragraph states that you claim the victory point immediately, which tells me it happens before anything else including sabotage. You claim it immediately, but the victory point is not scored until the end of turn. There's a big difference between claiming objectives and scoring victory points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The book says " If you can achieve a tatical objective at the end of your turn you must immediatly score victory points for it". And that's in the first paragraph of achieving tatical objectives. Merged double post, Dam13n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Page 137 in the first paragraph states that you claim the victory point immediately, which tells me it happens before anything else including sabotage. The book says " If you can achieve a tatical objective at the end of your turn you must immediatly score victory points for it".Right. Immediately. Just as soon as it becomes the end of your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Antiochus Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Sabotage happens at the end of your turn too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 But which happens first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't have my book handy, so be sure to double check the sabotage and TacO rules to be sure ... If they both happen at the same time -- in this case the end of the turn -- then the controlling player decides the order. [found my book] Almost. The start and end of a turn are different. Roll off to decide which happens first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 You claim an objective when you move onto it, but you only gain the tactical point at the very end of the turn. As Sabotage is an action in tha game turn it happens just before the turn ends. As sabotage killed the model on the objective there was no model claiming the objective at the turn end, so no victory points are scored. The order is such: claim objective>sabotage>turn end and calculation of victory points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It does help to have all of the rules ... "Sabotaged! At the end of the turn in which the objective was identified," Type: Capture & Control A vital objective has been identified in your vicinity. You are ordered to hold it at any cost. Score 1 Victory Point if you control Objective Marker 1 at the end of your turn. If these things occur before or after the game, or at the start or end of a game turn, the players roll-off and the winner decides in what order the rules are resolved in. So there you go. Unless someone else knows another rule which should be included in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sabatoge happens in the end turn phase as described under the mysterious objectives table and based on the definition of immediately you should be claiming the point before doing anything else that happens in the end of turn phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you can convince your opponent that is how it works, then that is how it works. Kudos, you win a point, ain't it great to be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I just want a definitive answer that i haven't gotten. why wouldn't you get the point. Basicly I'm saying if you die at the end of the turn at the same time your collecting the point from the objective how does the point get denied? Merged double post, Dam13n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The book says " If you can achieve a tatical objective at the end of your turn you must immediatly score victory points for it".If we're going to quote the rules, how about we finish the sentence?If you can achieve a Tactical Objective at the end of your turn you must immediately score Victory Points for it - you cannot choose not to achieve a Tactical Objective at the end of your turn.This sentence, in context, spells out the fact that you have to claim your Victory Points for Tactical Objectives on the turn that you achieve them - no waiting for the next turn. It has nothing to do with the sequence of events in a turn. Since Jacinda has already laid out the details on sequencing, it should be clear that in this particular case, you will need to roll off to see what event happens first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veralore Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If two things happen at the end of the turn one does not happen before other. show why does one happen before the other? Nothing I have says they happen separately. Merged double post, Dam13n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Nothing I have says they happen separately.It is in the rule book under Sequencing. If you have nothing that says one happens before the other, then you do not have the rule book. I have quoted as big of a block as I care to. You know where the rule is; borrow a book if you have to. The Rules > The Turn > Sequencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Antiochus Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Nothing I have says they happen separately.It is in the rule book under Sequencing. If you have nothing that says one happens before the other, then you do not have the rule book. I have quoted as big of a block as I care to. You know where the rule is; borrow a book if you have to.The Rules > The Turn > Sequencing. Cool. This is what we ended up doing that night anyway. I know for a fact he has two 7th edition rulebooks actually, thanks for clarifying things. Doesn't give you a ticket to even be subtlely hateful. Don't be that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I can never be that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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