EnterRehab Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I can't find any FAQs on it. Is it really going to stay that strong? it's pretty ridiculous so far. Should it remain 2d6 per unit it hits? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What's wrong with it? is an improved version of the one on pyromancy discipline Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 What's wrong with it? is an improved version of the one on pyromancy discipline Is the pyro version WC1 or 2? rulebook and codex are in my backpack at home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Sunburst, warp charge 1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I dont see why it would change. Its very good in specific circumstances and usually requires some hoops to jump through. Meanwhile meq/teq pretty much laugh it off, khorne hounds and anything with a ML 2-3 psyker can stop it or at least force you to use an inordinate amount of dice to force it through meaning limited attempts. Hordes get hurt badly but the range and the nature of hordes means they don't always care that they lost 5-6 models per unit. Now non av12 flyers don't like it much but they have the ability to stay away so they get caught its their fault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionicman Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Taking into consideration, that you can't hit models beyond 9'' ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Is that correct? it says "unit" in range get 2d6 wounds, not models in range... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Rules for shooting still dictate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Witchfires follow the normal rules for shooting (except where otherwise stated) so a weapon can only hit models within its range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah, I've played it as you can only kill what you reach. Lessens the effectively a huuuge amount. But I don't see a problem with the power at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3891868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hence why you Pod or Raven the Purifiers into range, and you combat squad so you can double-cast. You wanna be at point-blank anyway, so you can maximise the number of enemy units within 9" (remember you can choose which Purifier it starts from, as the whole squad is considered a single psyker as per the rules for Brotherhood of Psykers). It's perfectly fine. It devastates hordes and light AV, it does nothing to AV12+, and it causes a few casualties to MeQ. Considering its WC2 and on a pretty easily killed platform, its balanced. Also, being a witchfire, it triggers all the normal bonuses to Deny (although only one unit hit can Deny it). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3892395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 We're gonna play it with the standard rules and see how it goes. Also, some blog I read the other day tried to come up with an argument for using a witchfire NOVA when in close combat. This is incorrect, right? as it is witchfire and it can't be used while in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3892744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you are engaged you cannot cast witchfires. If you are engaged you CAN be hit by novas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3892797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 We're gonna play it with the standard rules and see how it goes. So, exactly how it's meant to be played then? Also, some blog I read the other day tried to come up with an argument for using a witchfire NOVA when in close combat. This is incorrect, right? as it is witchfire and it can't be used while in close combat. Don't read blogs for rules advice, they'll give you brain damage. When in doubt just read the rules again carefully. Witchfires (regardless of type) can never be cast whilst you're engaged in melee. Nova's do hit all units in their range though, regardless of what they are doing (it's why they're hilarious to use against FMC's or Flyers, as they auto-hit). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3892885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The OLD cleansing flame could be used in combat, and was crazy good. One purifier could essentially kill off a huge portion of a horde in CC for only 1 warp charge. The new one is a Witchfire. Soo can never be used in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3892897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Cleansing is a 9" range nova not witch fire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 And novas are a subtype of witchfires.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yeshhh. A nova is most definitely a sub type for Witchfire... Even if it wasn't (which it is) it says that it follows the normal rules for shooting... So there is literally no way around it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotoctopuss Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yeshhh. A nova is most definitely a sub type for Witchfire... Even if it wasn't (which it is) it says that it follows the normal rules for shooting... So there is literally no way around it. Nova rules say it targets and hits regardless of being locked in combat. So it kinda makes the exception.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yeshhh. A nova is most definitely a sub type for Witchfire... Even if it wasn't (which it is) it says that it follows the normal rules for shooting... So there is literally no way around it. Nova rules say it targets and hits regardless of being locked in combat. So it kinda makes the exception.. Targets and hits enemy units. The spell is witchfire, and witchfire cannot be used in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotoctopuss Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 It also says a Witchfire attack MUST roll to hit. The Nova sub heading clearly overrules elements of Witchfire being a shooting attack. After making the exceptions, it goes on to state "otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 It also says a Witchfire attack MUST roll to hit. The Nova sub heading clearly overrules elements of Witchfire being a shooting attack. After making the exceptions, it goes on to state "otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack" This isn't worth arguing. If I take each rule and rip it apart and make inferences based on what is said in other components.. RaW is broken, yes. RAI is what you need to consider for this. Witchfire can't be used when in CC, and the spell is clearly a witchfire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Throne's sake....its really not that hard people. Is your Purifier squad in melee? Yes = you can't cast witchfire powers. Period. Focus on cutting them with your nemesis swords, which you're pretty good at anyway. No = yes you can cast 'Cleansing Flame' Assuming you successfully cast it, choose a Purifier model in the squad. Measure 9" from his base, and determine which (if any) enemy units are within that 9" zone. If they have even a single model in range, they're hit. Lone models are also hit. Each unit hit suffers the full 2D6 profile, do not roll to hit (as it is a nova). Nova's don't care if the enemy are in melee or not, and they can never effect friendlies, melee or not. It's really not that hard. Read the witchfire rules, read the nova sub-type, read the 'Cleansing Flame' entry in Sanctic Daemonology. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3893964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotoctopuss Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 So by that logic you are also saying that nova can't hit units that are locked in combat because it's Witchfire? I'm only asking because it's my understanding of the rule from reading it as is with no attempt to 'twist' it in my favour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3894038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 So by that logic you are also saying that nova can't hit units that are locked in combat because it's Witchfire? I'm only asking because it's my understanding of the rule from reading it as is with no attempt to 'twist' it in my favour. It hit's enemy models that ARE in combat, but it cannot be used while the casting unit is in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300523-lets-resolve-the-rules-for-cleansing-flame/#findComment-3894042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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