Tactical Flamers: Does anyone take them?

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I'm agonizing over how to build my new shiny tactical box.  I went for the heavy flamer option, and I'm still struggling to figure out what special to take.  I think it would be cool to do a flamer to complement, although that means there isn't a lot of AP potential in the squad.

 

I'm probably going to give my sergeant a combi-melta, so there's that, but what do people think about that sort of build in general?

 

If I'm using other elements in my force to take down harder targets (Death company, sanguinary guard, terminators, etc.) then maybe it's OK to have my tactical squads as dedicated horde-control?

 

I may do it anyways just because it's cool, but I thought I'd see if anyone else uses regular flamers, because I feel like I never read about it.

 

I'm also considering a grav gun as an alternative.  I hate plasma, so that's out (I hate weapons that kill my own) and melta feels boring.

[Frater Cornelius]

5 man with heavy flamer in Razorback is probably the most common setup.

[Shaezus]

Choice of transport depends on the missions you play (EW or maelstrom) and your local / competitive meta of course, but a frying pod squad of tacticals with heavy flamer, flamer and combiflamer on the sarge fits right in with what you've said about your other units. Stick a sword and meltabombs on the sarge also and once they've dropped and burned you then have a strong, decently priced non-essential unit sitting in your oppo's yard. It will take a good deal of hakka and dakka from your opponent to shift them, which draws fire away from your essential units. If your oppo ignores them, you advance, make toast again, then charge at S5 I5.

 

So they give your oppo a dilemma, and they're just your most basic unit!

[depthcharge12]

If you have the...

 

B)

 

...Baals I would take heavy flamers all the way.

 

Real men use heavy flamers.

[Silverson]

i built mine last night with heavy flamer, melta and combi melta on sargent(modeld him with a melta bomb also but not sure if i will give him it because im fully expecting them to die before he gets to use it) to drop pod down as a combat squad 2 shots to melt a vehicle and the other squad will either flame what comes out or if i fail to blow up the vehicle a try and flame something else.

 

edit: p s did you new tac squad come with transfers as mine did not and i was curious ?

[Ushtarador]

I would add a Melta, then combat squad, it gives you the most flexibility ;)

Multiple flamers with different profiles get diminishing returns, as you shoot them one after the other, so if your heavy flamer kills stuff, your normal flamer will score less hits.

[Charlo]

I think while tacticals are meant to be jacks of all trades masters of none, having a heavy flamer and a melta is a little weird, especially when we can get fast melta everywhere else.

 

I'd have a heavy flamer and then a flamer or mayyyybe a plasma gun? And go for enemy infantry, as if you target a tank with your single melta shot you've wasted the rest of your squads kill potential for he turn and hopefully you have something else ready to pop the tank. Bolters and heavy flamer will stock up a lot of wounds and the plasma will hopefully get a few tasty kills. Combi plasma to taste.

 

But I guess the other factor is that we get strength 5 on the charge, and every marine has a pistol to shoot and then charge so its the same number of hits, just across two phases. Plasma would prevent you charging so I guess to be prepared a melta might be nice...

 

Wow after that train-wreck of a post I see your Dilemma.

[Firepower]

If you have the...

...Baals I would take heavy flamers all the way.

BOOOOOOO!

Anyway, I'd say that none of the special weapon options really compliment a Heavy Flamer well, beyond another Flamer. It does leae the squad lacking in AP power, but one Melta really isn't all that useful, and you'd be left wit ha squad with a confused role. It's sorta like taking a squad that's 50% Bolters and 50% BP/CCW. You try to be jack of all trades, but really you're just half as good at anything you try.

So in short, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. Burn it all! Drive the wicked and the corrupt from beneath their rocks to immolate and reduce to ash under the proud gaze of the Emperor! Let your hatred and rage flow through holy fire to wash away the taint of the impure! Let the pyres rage for a thousand thousand years, until there hides not one xeno, traitor or witch alive to fuel its smoldering wrath! No pity! No remorse! No...well..hm.

Maybe you lot aren't quite ready for that. But burning things is a good start.

[Shaezus]

@ Ushtarador - this is where planning and positioning makes a difference. HF and flamers go at opposite ends of the squad, so their arcs don't merge and compete. If it takes only the HF to kill them in the first place, either you didn't have bigger fish to fry or you're using your tacs on the wrong target.

 

A fully tooled frying squad can savage a horde of 20-30 and laugh at any survivors making a counter-charge. Against 50+ the squad's firepower will kill enough to force your oppo to use another unit to shift them. So that's two units you've drawn out of the fight already.

 

A 5-man squad just could not do this.

 

Assuming an average of 5 hits under each template, vs a T3 horde:

 

HF: 4-5 kills.

 

Flamer + combiflamer: 6-7 kills

 

14 boltgun shots: 6-7 kills

 

Total 16-19 kills

 

Single HF + 8 boltgun shots: 7-9 kills

 

edit: mixing flamer and melta in one squad means one of these weapons will always be wasted whatever you fire at. Also if you're serious about killing armour, a single melta is nowhere near enough unless you happen to be consistently very lucky.

[depthcharge12]

I would add a Melta, then combat squad, it gives you the most flexibility ;)

Multiple flamers with different profiles get diminishing returns, as you shoot them one after the other, so if your heavy flamer kills stuff, your normal flamer will score less hits.

This is what I'm thinking of doing.

 

Take 10 tacticals in a drop pod with a heavy flamer and a meltagun. Split them if you want, but I'd rather keep them together and have them assault something; the melta gun and heavy flamer can be shot before assault, which is likely what you're doing with BAs anyway :)

 

Heavy flamers are pretty much a better heavy bolter. It has the same profile with a higher propensity to hit more things, and as an added bonus, allows no cover saves and can be used if charged to great effect.

[Calnus]

I personally have a thing against mixing assault and heavy/rapid/salvo weapons, so I would take a meltagun with Heavy Flamer, so I can shoot both and assault.

 

To be honest, if I do build the heavy flamer, I'll probably only take him as part of a 5-man squad.  Diminishing returns on multiple template weapons has bit me before, and it really sucks.  Especially since unless you're up against a big pack (like 10-15+), you probably won't be able to get a decent ammount of wounds with the second flamer.  And anyone in their right mind, with given the choice between eating 2 wall of death flamers and taking an S5 I5 charge next turn, will almost alwas choice the flamers and charge you anyway.

 

So, sorry, not much help on picking what to go with your heavy flamer.  You could always just keep it super cheap and use all bolters, all the time.

[depthcharge12]

 

If you have the...B)

...Baals I would take heavy flamers all the way.

 

 

BOOOOOOO!

 

:down:

Oh you templars are always so serious :P

 

Let me just ride the high from getting the new codex and enjoy my jocular humor

[BrainFireBob]

Can't Tactical sarges take either flamer pistols or infernus pistols? Don't have the new 'dex.

[depthcharge12]

Can't Tactical sarges take either flamer pistols or infernus pistols? Don't have the new 'dex.

Both I believe, unless the new tactical box is deceiving us :P

[Ishagu]

Melta and flamer is a terrible combo. Im fact I believe a single anti tank weapon is no good on a general squad.

 

This works: Combi plasma, Plasma Gun, Heavy Flamer. You can engage light and elite infantry through both ap2 fire and volume of fire, with some ignore cover splashed in for a horde unit in cover.

 

Going back to the melta idea; If a heavy tank rolls up you fire a melta, likely miss and then every other weapon is wasted. No thanks!

[The Yncarne]

The only time I take flamers to date is if the squad will be combat squadded. I don't see the flamer having good synergy with 10 men and a heavy weapon. I'm open minded to taking the heavy flamer and flamer, but I don't like the idea of 10 tacticals being that close to anything that close or with a gun.

 

Edit: I prefer plasma in tacticals over melta, but if your combat squad's job is to cover ground, I can see using a melta. 

[Ishagu]

The only time I take flamers to date is if the squad will be combat squadded. I don't see the flamer having good synergy with 10 men and a heavy weapon. I'm open minded to taking the heavy flamer and flamer, but I don't like the idea of 10 tacticals being that close to anything that close or with a gun.

I'm totally the opposite. I don't see the point of high strength weapons in a tac squad. You're wasting the firepower of every other member.

Plasma is the limit.

[Zedrenael]

So what I have found with some success is a Tactical Squad with Heavy Flamer, Combi-Melta, and Meltagun. Combat Squad out of a drop pod. Meltas in one squad and the HF in the other. Melta cracks open a transport and the HF cleans up the disembarking troops. Otherwise a HF in a Rhino is essential a Razorback now lol.

[BrainFireBob]

Is a combi flamer really better than a flamer pistol in a flamer-heavy flamer squad?

 

What about Razorback turret synergies? RBs can take a hvy flamer as well

[Pascalnz]

I love two infernos pistols and either a melta or heavy flamer in a pod, if it's ten man, take both and combat squad

[Shaezus]

Is a combi flamer really better than a flamer pistol in a flamer-heavy flamer squad?

 

What about Razorback turret synergies? RBs can take a hvy flamer as well

Combiflamer means more roast and toast to boast. More burn per turn baby. Oh yeah and it's cheaper.

You'll be lucky to get a single shot off with HF razor in today's 40k.

[bystrom]

If you're discounting plasma gun I'd either take melta combi-melta heavy flamer and combat squad or target mainly softer targets, or flamer heavy flamer and whatever on the sergeant and again target softer targets. Sure diminishing returns but it should be better than a bolter. Sergeant picks combi-flamer or power weapon or power weapon and hand flamer though the last one is really optional. It gives at least another wall of death though incredibly weak.

Since you always pick targets from the front of your unit and not model with flamer the returns diminish rather quickly.

Usually I go with melta for small squads and plasma or flamer for large squads. usually I add a combi. Heavy weapons are only there for looks

[Shaezus]

Since you always pick targets from the front of your unit and not model with flamer the returns diminish rather quickly.

That's no longer the case. In 7th ed BRB, shooting is now resolved in stages by different weapon types and these attacks are no longer synchronous. Wounds are allocated to the closest model to the models firing the given weapon type. So get your flamers in first (all resolved at same time) then bolters last.

[Frater Cornelius]

I believe he meant Heavy Flamer + Flamer. They diminish each other.

[depthcharge12]

If anyone takes a list of all flamers, I beg you to name it "Task Force: Trogdor"

 

 

Got to burninate the countryside.