Has anyone used Despoiler Squads?

[Kilofix]

Has anyone used Despoiler Squads to any good effect?

 

Like Tactical Squads with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword only (no Bolter, no JumpPack)?

 

I myself have usually only run Tacs with BG/BP or Tacs with BG/BP and the additional CC on top of that. But then, with the latter, I usually just end up shooting mostly and only rarely get into CC.

 

But would cheap Despoilers (as opposed to Tacs w/BG/BP/CC or Assault Squads) that focused on running into combat be any good for their points cost? What about with Land Raider support?

 

Thanks for the opinions.

[Slips]

Get a 20 man Despoiler Squad into a Land Raider Spartan with an Apothecary and Chaplain and your looking at a pretty scary unit, imo. AFAIK, you can Fury of the Legion with Bolt Pistols too (?).

 

That said, no, I have no real experience with using them.

[LaborerDNA]

Slipstreams, yep. You can FotL wih bolt pistols and assault same turn.

[Slips]

Well, there you go: 40 Bolt Pistol Shots into a ~40+ Attack Charge

 

Only problem with this amount of overkill would be getting shot afterwards if whatever you charge at survives.

 

Luckily you have 20+ bodies.

[Kilofix]

Interesting, I should have tried that sooner then. Thanks for the insight.

[Slips]

If you ever need inspiration for a 3k List using a :cuss ton of Despoilers: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295668-murderface-a-slipstream-list-named-by-depthcharge/?hl=%2Bmurderface&do=findComment&comment=3857338

[Emperors Teeth]

You can Fury of the Legion with Bolt Pistols, but you may only make a Fury of the Legion attack "...so long as they did not move, arrive via Deep Strike or disembark a vehicle earlier in the player turn."

 

So unless you're sitting waiting for your opponent to stand patiently in front of you to charge, that's not really a viable option. Might be if after wiping out a unit you find yourself in the middle of the enemy, but it's pretty unlikely to happen.

[AekoldHelbrass]

I've been using mostly Despoilers. Close combat in case of marines is much more effective than bolter shooting, having CCW gives you 1.5 times more attacks, and part of them is AP2-AP3 (Sergeant + Apothecary). With shooting, it takes way more turns to wipe out enemy unit than just charging it.

 

I would not go with Spartan, for the price of Spartan you can just run another 20-strong+Apothecary unit.

 

And of course I'm trying to avoid any shooting before the charge, because you can kill couple of models in front of enemy unit and fail a charge by exactly that 1-2 inches.

[Hesh Kadesh]

FotL is a nonentity on Bolt Pistols. It's useful if you find in a situation where you can use it, but you should never force BP+CCW into those situations.

 

Imagine;

 

Turn 1; Move transport up, no shooting effective from either (for simplicities sake)

Turn 2; Disembark, 6" move, 12" pistol, 20 shots, 0.111 bolter kill rate/per shot vs normal marine = 2 dead. Recieve FotL back, lose 8.

Turn 3; FotL Pistol, 24 shots = 2 dead, charge into overwatch = 0.888 so no kills rounding down

 

Final score = 12 despoilers versus 16 Tacticals at the start of your T3 Fight subphase. Your opponent only needs to disbelieve the internets collective wisdom and jump ahead of the meta and take the Bolter+BP+CCW option, and you're equals - but only on the charge. After the charge bonus has gone, you are getting beat down, and hard. You've nearly successfully nullified 290pts of models with 250pts for an entire game - except it's not a great trade off when you still end up losing, and they still end up sat on the objective smoking a fat one.

 

Compare with;

 

Turn 1; as above

Turn 2; Disembark, 6" move, 12" pistol, 20 shots = 2 dead, charge into overwatch = 1 dead

 

Final score = 19 Despoilers, versus 18 Tacticals at the start of your T2 Fightsubphase. That's 58 attacks versus 19, or 38. Even with 0.083 chance per attack of a kill, that's 4 kills to 1 or 3. You come out on top with that - and force a morale check - and even should they pass, and have 2CCW, you're still ahead with 16 versus their 14.

 

As for a comparison with Assault Marines, who provide a charge attack earlier if footslogging, or same time if Spartan mounted and a Hammer of Wrath, you get 1 additional kill for 150 more points. OTOH, Assault Marines do get access to combat shields and power axes to stop gap against Terminators or Palatine Blades or Command Squads, or Bikes -so chalk and cheese in a way. 

 

Bolters aren't much better with Fury of the Legion. I remembered the joy of theorising throwing 80 dice from a single units shooting phase, but it just doesn't work like that. It's fun if it happens, but mostly, it's to give your 20 men sitting on an objective with an apothecary the ability to feel like they're doing something while taking Executioner Plasma Fire and shots from Avenger Megabolters all day long.

 

Many units recieve better benefits from being out of combat. The most important one is that they don't get to shoot. The second is that certain legions get in-assault benefits - World Eaters, Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Raven Guard legion special rules (and some of their legion specific units) are intended for combat. Other legions lose benefits by being in combat, or by losing the charge - Raven Guard, World Eaters, Iron Hands etc. By keeping your despoilers out of combat, you're only fighting certain armies on their home turf, and that is where the RNG causes the army with the biggest RNG manipulators to win.

 

But the game isn't decided purely on the "on-paper" RNG, because of all the other special rules which let you attempt to outmatch. 

 

I think Despoiler squads have their place, as do Bolter Squads, as do Bolter+BP+CCW squads. It's just a matter of figuring out what you want out of your squads, and what your meta is made of. Also, bear in mind that you can't take everything mentioned above as being true either - as there are other variances, whether it's WE despoilers with Rage, or Sons of Horus getting +1 attack, or Night Lords +1 to wound etc which make things even more complicated, not to mention the involvement of ranged units softening up said targets, or FNP's... 

[Kilofix]

If it makes a difference, I'm running DG with Apoth w/PW and Rad Grenades.

 

Guess the only way to be sure is to run a squad and see how it works out.

 

Thanks for all the opinions though.