Mephistar is dead...meet the Mephiscout

[Red-beard]

I've been working on a list in which I will run Mephiston with scouts.....yes I said scouts. I'm calling it the Mephiscout. Before using this list, I'd like some feedback to make sure I'm not misinterpreting any rules or missing any obvious tactical options.

First, why use scouts? Because scouts give Mephiston two things:

1) If I understand the rules correctly, they confer the scout rule to the IC model, so Mephiston and the scouts can scout forward 12" during deployment, getting them to a nice mid-field position (ideally in cover where the scouts can use their camo cloaks). Granted, they can't assault turn 1, but that is fine.

2) They give Mephiston cheap meat shields....I plan on using LoS on any AP2 weapons, so I don't want to be shedding wounds onto expensive death company or veteran models. Furthermore, with their cloaks, the scouts will actually have a very nice 3+ (ruins/rubble) or 4+ (forests) cover save against those pesky AP2 weapons.

So with this setup, what do you get? You get Mephiston and two squads of 5 scouts mid-field during deployment, deployed next to each other. This puts Meph in a great position to use his psychic powers to either boost your own force or attack the enemy. It creates a small threat bubble in which your opponent is going to be afraid to place units, else they'll be assaulted by S10 Mephiston and the CCW scouts (and pistol/CCW scouts are no joke with their furious charge and +1 init detachment bonus). You can even add a priest for FNP, but I don't plan to do that much just due to the points cost...and I'd rather use the priest elsewhere.

This setup also allows you to fulfill the required two troop slots for a total of 135 points (assuming you buy the cloaks and the 2nd squad takes sniper rifles). In my current list, I have two 5-man scout squads, the first with CCW/pistols (Meph will join initially) and the second with sniper rifles. Meph will join the CCW squad during deployment and then move to the sniper squad mid-game, once his first unit of meat-shields begins to run low. This approach allows the 2nd squad of sniper scouts to be useful and shoot their rifles during the first couple rounds.

They are basically my forward deployment threat unit to give the opponent something to think about while all of my heavy hitters advance (or drop-pod in) on turn 1.

Thoughts? Anything I'm missing?

[Frater Cornelius]

Only downside is that they are too slow. Only 6" movement is bad in Maelstrom and they will never see melee unless your opponent wants you to.

[mika_angelus]

One small thing. Scouts have Infiltrate, not Scouts rule :)

[Red-beard]

Scouts have both infiltrate and scout. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

One small thing. Scouts have Infiltrate, not Scouts rule

Actually, they have both.

Snorri

Edit: Yeah, ninja'd.

Did anyone notice that sniper rifles now cost points to equip??

[Frater Cornelius]

And what do they do after they Scout? Move 6", that is what.

[ElectricPaladin]

One small thing. Scouts have Infiltrate, not Scouts rule

Actually, they have both.

Snorri

Edit: Yeah, ninja'd.

Did anyone notice that sniper rifles now cost points to equip??

Yes, but camo cloaks are cheaper now.

[Red-beard]

Only downside is that they are too slow. Only 6" movement is bad in Maelstrom and they will never see melee unless your opponent wants you to.

 

That is kind of the point of deploying via scout...it gets them mid-field quickly to give options while putting pressure on the opponent. Yes, you're limited to a 6" move afterward, but Mephiston is always going to be limited to a 6" move once on foot. 

[girot]

it seems to me that the point if this is to create a dangerous distraction if not a mouse trap. if i ran this tactic, and i probably will because its genius, im not even going to worry about assaultung unless some n00b enemy squad gets close enough to snack on.

[tsijben]

I personally think Corbulo is the best IC for Scouts, just because he turns a nice cheap squad or two in deadly killing machines.

[Xenith]

I personally think Corbulo is the best IC for Scouts, just because he turns a nice cheap squad or two in deadly killing machines.

 

Scouting scorpions?

Scowling Banshees?

 

A very nice trick, and one that I will look forward to trying out sometime!

[Red-beard]

I personally think Corbulo is the best IC for Scouts, just because he turns a nice cheap squad or two in deadly killing machines.

 

Agreed, I considered adding him or a generic priest to my list squad. But in the end I wanted to stay away from the "star" approach and keep the unit point cost small. The idea is to put multiple potent threats on the board instead of one giant threat. Force your opponent to make some tough choices. 

 

Running this list with Corbulo instead of Meph, however, would be a nice alternative. 

[tsijben]

It was more an example, my favourite one to be honest.

I don't think you should really make a unit around him.

The new Mephiston seems more like an upgrade to a unit then a model that needs a bodyguard.

 

And a unit I want to attack with my Scouts is different from the unit I want to assault with Mephiston.

So in my opinion they don't really complement each other.

[Red-beard]

 

And a unit I want to attack with my Scouts is different from the unit I want to assault with Mephiston.

So in my opinion they don't really complement each other.

 

I don't understand that comment. Your scouts can be equipped in CC the same way as an assault squad (pistol/CCW, power weapon on the sergeant)...so they can attack any unit you'd normally attack with assault marines. Yes, they are WS3/4+, but you're paying 11 points per model instead of 17! With furious charge and hitting at I5 on the charge, they can be equipped to be quite good in close combat for their points. 

 

Or are you saying you would not normally want Meph attached to assault or tac marines? If you're not attaching him to assault marines, what ARE you attaching him to? Death company? Sanguinary Guard? Those units are way to expensive to be using as LoS models, imo.  

[Henderson85]

Unless I'm missing something (like the scouts having a dedicated transport) they only scout forward 6", not 12".

[Red-beard]

Unless I'm missing something (like the scouts having a dedicated transport) they only scout forward 6", not 12".

 

Ummmm, that's right. It's 6" for infantry, not 12". Good catch, thanks. I totally would have played that wrong. I'm used to scouting vehicles =p.

 

I think what I'll do then is infiltrate the sniper squad more forward to deploy in a firing position on an objective. Then I'll scout Meph and the CCW squad 6" forward, unless some target presents itself. During my turns, I'll move Meph's unit forward towards the sniper scouts. Then, if it is needed later, I can have the snipers move toward Meph so he can join them as a second meat-shield squad. 

[Deschenus Maximus]

Unfortunately, this won't work. Independant Characters are prohibited from joining squads of Infiltrators during deployment unless they have the Infiltrate rule themselves.

[Red-beard]

They aren't prohibited from joining squads with the infiltrate rule, they merely don't benefit from infiltrate. 

 

I'm not infiltrating Mephiston, I'm scouting him. Why is that not legal?

[Deschenus Maximus]

They aren't prohibited from joining squads with the infiltrate rule, they merely don't benefit from infiltrate. 

 

I'm not infiltrating Mephiston, I'm scouting him. Why is that not legal?

 

P. 166:

 

"An Independant Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment."

 

Don't think it could be made any clearer.

[InquisitorBlack]

You guys aren't reading what red beard is saying yet are telling him he is wrong. Disappointing...

 

I prefer Meph in a pod with ASM. The free pod makes their effective cost approx 13.2 points. I think power armour (and their melta options) make them totally superior to scouts.

[Deschenus Maximus]

You guys aren't reading what red beard is saying yet are telling him he is wrong. Disappointing...

 

 

He says he wants to Scout Meph. The book specificaly says an IC can't join a squad with Infiltrate during deployment. Therefore, he can't do it. Not wanting to infiltrate doesn't matter - Meph can't join them during deployment, period.

[InquisitorBlack]

I'd argue Infiltrators is an operative word being used to imply 'a unit that is infiltrating'. If they aren't infiltrating, they aren't infiltrators.

[Deschenus Maximus]

I'd argue Infiltrators is an operative word being used to imply 'a unit that is infiltrating'. If they aren't infiltrating, they aren't infiltrators.

 

You can never not infiltrate. As soon as you have the Infiltrate special rule, you MUST deploy last. No way around it.

[Henderson85]

I'd argue Infiltrators is an operative word being used to imply 'a unit that is infiltrating'. If they aren't infiltrating, they aren't infiltrators.

Yup I'd say this is the correct interpretation as well.

 

 

Unless I'm missing something (like the scouts having a dedicated transport) they only scout forward 6", not 12".

 

 

Ummmm, that's right. It's 6" for infantry, not 12". Good catch, thanks. I totally would have played that wrong. I'm used to scouting vehicles =p.

 

I think what I'll do then is infiltrate the sniper squad more forward to deploy in a firing position on an objective. Then I'll scout Meph and the CCW squad 6" forward, unless some target presents itself. During my turns, I'll move Meph's unit forward towards the sniper scouts. Then, if it is needed later, I can have the snipers move toward Meph so he can join them as a second meat-shield squad.

Nice, this should work. Let us know how it works for you! Alternatively, the drop pod option, or a fast rhino (24" movement with the flat out I think) could also be good options to try if you don't end up liking the scouts!

[InquisitorBlack]

I just checked the rulebook, it does state that units with the infiltrate special rule must deploy last under the special rules listed. Given that it's not a 'choice', I'd have to agree with Deschenus Maximus. Meph can't join the scouts.