Avarris Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Fellow brothers of the Fang I am looking for a bit of assistance in finalising the Heavy Support choices of my Space Wolves list. Here's what I have so far for my Heavy Support: 2 units of 5 Long Fangs, 1 with Missile Launchers (will have Flakk Missiles as well for some anti-air) and the second with Lascannons. The rest of my army are all mounted in Rhino's and Razorback's (Land Raider for the Terminators). I'm torn between a Vindicator which can advance with the mounted units and once in range start blasting chunks out of the enemy or take a Predator (which I can magnetise for all of the weapon options) which can stay towards the back of the board with the Long Fangs and take shots at armoured targets. I am generally staying away from the Stormfang/wolf as I still have it in my head that unless absolutely necessary Wolves don't fly. I can go into what I have for the rest of my army if needed but there's a fair bit so didn't want to type it all out. Thank you in advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A single Vindicator is a risk. If going single go Predator. .... And btw consider a Sicaran (A 80 Pound FW Modell) cause it will come up 100 Times in this threat ... just a forewarning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm surprised Immersturm hasn't suggested it yet. I agree about the single Vindi, they are much better in pairs. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarris Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah I can't afford the Sicarian and don't have the rules for it which is why its not an option. The option for a second Vindicator isn't too bad as I can use the models for the second long fang can go towards a third Grey Hunter squad rather than. I have in total 60 Space Wolf models, which has resulted in 2 units of GH and 2 units of BC, 5 WG and 5 Long Fangs. The spare 10 models can be towards a 2nd Long Fangs (not made) and additional Blood Claws which I can load into the Crusader I have for my Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerw Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I wouldn't really bother with LF atm, unless you have a really specialized use in mind. They are too squishy right now, don't provide enough of a threat, and cost too much. Sure, they can put out the dakka, but unless you have a corner case, such as taking heavy bolters vs a horde army with little firepower, predators, vindicators, shoot, even the stormwolf/fang are probably better options (although obviously the wolf is FA). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarris Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 I wouldn't really bother with LF atm, unless you have a really specialized use in mind. They are literally my only Anti-air unit at the moment as I don't want to use flyers (take up way too much space in my Army case and imo cost way too much points wise). The only other option to take is probably a defence line and quad gun (which will being added in anyway) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerw Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I wouldn't really bother with LF atm, unless you have a really specialized use in mind. They are literally my only Anti-air unit at the moment as I don't want to use flyers (take up way too much space in my Army case and imo cost way too much points wise). The only other option to take is probably a defence line and quad gun (which will being added in anyway) The quad gun option is much better, and unless you're seeing tons of flyers, I'd just ignore them. If you're actually seeing a lot, a stormfang/wolf would be solid for you, but honestly, I wouldn't bother paying for flak missiles. They're so poor for that cost (plus the cost of the figures) and if they're actually an issue, the opponent will just melt them before his flyer gets there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Just take 1 flakk missile launcher in each pack and use the split fire rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm surprised Immersturm hasn't suggested it yet. I agree about the single Vindi, they are much better in pairs. End of Line Heh, I must've missed that thread. Was a litte busy analyzing the new BA and raging at the leaked supplement and WD info. So much wasted potential. Anyway, Sicaran seems to be out of the picture, due to cost. I respect that and no worries, I have different advice as well. I want to advocate Long Fangs. I have learned to love them in 7th. Their shootiness to price ratio is very solid. My usual setup is this: Unit 1 - 200pts Pack Leader with TDA, SB/SS 5x Missile Launcher Unit 2 - 175pts Pack Leader with TDA, SS/SB 5x Heavy Bolter I am abusing the free access to SS to give them an adequate tank up front. Two wounds saved that would've killed a regular LF and he has done his job. He can usually die T2 onwards. It is imperative that the LF can shoot with full potential in T1 and T2. That is my 1750 setup anyway. At 1500 I usually drop the TDA. Why ML? Glancing AV and blasts. I want that extra bit anti-infantry. Same reason I like Deathwind and Heavy Bolters on LF. Tarpits and hordes is the thing that threaten my elite list the most. As for the Sicaran. It is not always the best option. A single piece of AV, no matter how good, will be focused and will die. Same with Vindicators and Predators. If you want AV, have at least 3 of them with some smaller support. We are talking drop pod Dreads, Rhinos and Vindicators. Post your list, that way we can give better advice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarris Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 My List is: HQ: 1 Wolf Lord which can either go on a Thunder Wolf or on Foot (magnetised in the waist) 3 Wolf Lords in Terminator Armour (for different weapon combinations but will only use 1 at a time) 1 Rune Priest in Power Armour 1 In Terminator Armour Troops 2 units of 10 Grey Hunters (with Plasma Guns) in Rhinos 2 units of Blood Claws in Rhinos Elites 1 unit of 5 WGTA with a mix of weapons in a Crusader 1 unit of WGPA again a mix of weapons in a Razorback Fast Attack 1 unit of Thunder Wolves Heavy Support 2 units of Long Fangs which I am now unsure of what to arm them with, these will be on Foot as will place at the back for fire support. I have 5 power armour bodies left to use, which I am tempted take rid of 1 of the LF and make a 3rd Grey Hunter squad with Meltaguns. To transport them I will use one of the Plasma GH rhino's and that squad can walk. That will then leave me with 2 HS slots for Vindicators or Predators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3892732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 My List is: HQ: 1 Wolf Lord which can either go on a Thunder Wolf or on Foot (magnetised in the waist) 3 Wolf Lords in Terminator Armour (for different weapon combinations but will only use 1 at a time) 1 Rune Priest in Power Armour 1 In Terminator Armour Troops 2 units of 10 Grey Hunters (with Plasma Guns) in Rhinos 2 units of Blood Claws in Rhinos Elites 1 unit of 5 WGTA with a mix of weapons in a Crusader 1 unit of WGPA again a mix of weapons in a Razorback Fast Attack 1 unit of Thunder Wolves Heavy Support 2 units of Long Fangs which I am now unsure of what to arm them with, these will be on Foot as will place at the back for fire support. I have 5 power armour bodies left to use, which I am tempted take rid of 1 of the LF and make a 3rd Grey Hunter squad with Meltaguns. To transport them I will use one of the Plasma GH rhino's and that squad can walk. That will then leave me with 2 HS slots for Vindicators or Predators. Ah, Long Fangs: so much love from prior editions, so little chance to use them as most know that dropping LF's really shuts down most SW heavy support shooting almost all the time. I'd say you will want the PA models to make an additional small GH or BC pack, per your choice and what fits. As for Heavy Support, go with one or two Vindicators for pie plate 24" shooting when needed, and / or one to two Predators for either dakka (AC & HB Sponsons) or anti-armor (TLLC & LC Sponsons). I have not played in a while, however, due to the changes in 7th Edition, a great deal of AP2 and AP1 shooting means LF's just can't cut it alone, and are really hurting most of the time when taken in a list. It's a shut down anti armor, then shut down the rest of the army problem. SW Centurions also really would not fix the issue, however, overall we do need somewthing to change, and most consistently, it's that HS armor assets will now be a bit more reliable overall. Take as one will; any thoughts in response? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3893335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Two Vindicators will do nicely. I do not see Fangs fitting in here as well as my list. They also add important armour saturation. Don't want your LR pop T1, would you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3893731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 ....... I am generally staying away from the Stormfang/wolf as I still have it in my head that unless absolutely necessary Wolves don't fly. ...... How the hell did they get out of Fenris? I don't see all Rune and Wolf Priest drugging whole companies to embark them in Space Ships as they were M.A. Barracus!!! Anyway, about HS and LF, although I don't get from them as much as before, I still use my 5 ML fangs and my 5 Heavy bolters... Last one are my "little girls unit". 15 F5 FP4 shots that don't get too much attention from the oponent most of times. I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3893900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerw Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If it's a budget concern, I might also suggest a rifleman style of dread or three, as you can typically ebay them for pretty good price. You can always also just drop pod dreads with multimeltas (which I have a hard time NOT doing). These frequently serve much of the same purpose as "real" HS - popping some armored model + tarpitting another unit, which ends up being about the output you'd probably get from your HS on average (although the HS's version of "tarpitting" is more like "Killing enough figures/HP from that unit to render it much less effective."). Just a thought, as budgets sometimes dictate choices. You also might consider just going with more razorbacks - they aren't the ideal thing for a HS (and I mean, they're FA if you're not podding them), but they'll help mitigate a lack of true HS. ....... I am generally staying away from the Stormfang/wolf as I still have it in my head that unless absolutely necessary Wolves don't fly. ...... How the hell did they get out of Fenris? I don't see all Rune and Wolf Priest drugging whole companies to embark them in Space Ships as they were M.A. Barracus!!! Anyway, about HS and LF, although I don't get from them as much as before, I still use my 5 ML fangs and my 5 Heavy bolters... Last one are my "little girls unit". 15 F5 FP4 shots that don't get too much attention from the oponent most of times. I They rode thunderwolves and jumped to the STARS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarris Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 ....... I am generally staying away from the Stormfang/wolf as I still have it in my head that unless absolutely necessary Wolves don't fly. ...... How the hell did they get out of Fenris? In some of the novels (the space wolf series) they only ever flew in stuff like thunderhawks and space ships, they wouldn't go into battle on a flyer as they prefer to fight with their feet on the ground. Theres also the fact that I don't overly like the stormfang/wolf model and would prefer to use the points else where. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 rapier weapons platforms (and the quad heavy bolter option) are better than long fangs in most respects, generally packing a larger punch and being able to take much more of a beating before they are destroyed. that said theyre maybe 3 times the price of long fangs, in actual dollars terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 rapier weapons platforms (and the quad heavy bolter option) are better than long fangs in most respects, generally packing a larger punch and being able to take much more of a beating before they are destroyed. that said theyre maybe 3 times the price of long fangs, in actual dollars terms. Word. Three Quad Heavy Bolter Rapiers cost you 120 and shoot 18 TLHB shots. 6 Fangs with 5 HB shoot 15 shots at 140 points. Thanks skele, I just found out how to inprove my list :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 No problem. I think they're pretty under costed for what they are. And also note how much tougher the 3 platforms are. You're looking at a total of 12 T7 wounds in that 120 point unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I will probably take 2 and stick the last 85pts into a 6th TWC and random gear. Or I take 1 and get a Stormtalon. Either way, good stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3894889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I just have to justify the purchase to myself. Top of my list: 3 rapier platforms, 2 sicarans, 3 lucius pods. But ugh that's the better part or NZD1k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3895487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I like long fangs, they offer a ton of vehicle killing potential, and are easy for an opponent to overlook, especially if you put tanks on the table with them. Take an Aegis defence line with the ammo cache, and put plasma cannon long fangs within 3 inches. No more gets hot unless you roll two 1's in a row. Or take an ADL with a quad gun, and put the ancient in base contact, and split fire him to take out fliers and skimmers. Or give them a razorback (w/TLLC for more anti armour, or HB/AC for some anti-infantry/light vehicle support). Long fangs offer versatility that you can't get with other heavy support choices. I always take my land raiders as dedicated transports, keeping those HS slots open, so I can use my long fangs, predator, or vindicator. Now, Most folks will say not to bother, but the whirlwind is worth considering. I wish it had more armour killing potential, but it is a pretty good artillery option, given the ability to indirect fire. Against lightly armoured opponents, it can be deadly. An allied detachment of C:SM can also yield some fun results, since you can then take thunderfire cannons and Centurion Devastators. But the purist in me says no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3896821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z00Z Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I have found long fangs to be very lack-lustre. I play on a table with lots of LOS blocking terrain and their inability to move and shoot makes for a very static shooting platform notwithstanding that unless you get them cover (aegis) or other, they are far too fragile requiring investment in a TDA upgrade with SS to tank. They get expensive really quickly and tend to be the very 1st unit off the table turn 1. For their pts, I'd look to more mobile heavy support options in their stead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300544-help-with-heavy-support/#findComment-3896831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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