Gab Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 So, been wanting to start a 30k force for a while, gone through the usual "which legion" question and have settled on either a DG or IF force. This is what I have amassed so far: - 2 x Legion mkiii tactical squads (60 troops) - 1 x Legion mkiv tacticals (5 troops) - 1 x relic Contemptor dread with all weapon options I do know I want to add a Sicaran, Spartan and Glaive in the future. Also love the grave warden and deathshroud models but unsure of how effective they are. If you were in my shoes which legion would you pick and why, and in what direction would you take this force? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you love the models... What else really matters? Sounds like Death Guard are for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Seconded. Also chem weapons are fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparika Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't know which size of battle you want to play but with 65 marines and a few tank you could easily make two forces. With two different color schemes it would be less boring after a while. On the other hand, if you like DG special units but have no interest for IF's one, your choice is probably done. If you want to do only one force, try to do a test marine for each of these army and see how you like it. As for the direction to take for building an army, I have a similar problem. I would like to build several small scale forces (because I can't and don't want to chose a legion) but I don't know which theme to choose for eache one. The best advice I've read so far is that you don't have to feel constrained by a specific theme for a legion. The scale of the crusade was so large that while some legion had some preference for a type of warfare, they were able to adapt and use various formations. But maybe you want to, or the type of force you want to play is associated with one legion. So go for what you like most. :) At some point I was starting a skirmish force of Black Templars, but now I'm switching them to IF 30K with some templar iconography. Your avatar is yellow and black with a templar cross ... so maybe IF? :D At least MK 3 fit for both. Though choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Death Guard are MUCH cooler than Imperial Fists. If Slipstreams asks I said nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Death Guard are MUCH cooler than Imperial Fists. If Slipstreams asks I said nothing. I'm telling! seriously though, I prefer Death Guard, they have a penchant for Attrition warfare. when I was going to do them, I was going to do a straight up trench warfare force. I think the DG are better than the IF's (again don't tell slipstreams) only because of the attrition thing. the DG models are cooler as well, but that's me..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Do the right thing jasp, I see you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Death Guard are MUCH cooler than Imperial Fists. If Slipstreams asks I said nothing. I'm telling! seriously though, I prefer Death Guard, they have a penchant for Attrition warfare. when I was going to do them, I was going to do a straight up trench warfare force. I think the DG are better than the IF's (again don't tell slipstreams) only because of the attrition thing. the DG models are cooler as well, but that's me..... OH HELL NAW! DG can brag about having cooler models because WE DONT HAVE OURS YET! ...Also our Contemptor is much nicer and less "I CAN TURN IT INTO ANY LEGIONS!" like the DG one is. Also, we're so baller we dont need 2 Dedicated Terminator Formations; we just need Shields, Axes, Swords and (oh god its happening) ZEAL! And, lets be honest here, Sigismund > Typhus/Typhon. AAAAAANNNDDD while the DG and IF are more or less on the same side in terms of Gear Bling, at least we look presentable >:-| /rantmodeoff Honestly though, do Whatever, just don't be discouraged when you realize how much Weathering you'll have to do if you choose DG or how much suffering you'll go through trying to get an awesome yellow if you go IF. Just check the work Atia does (among others) for DG inspiration and there are a lot of yellow tutorials here on the board already. Army wise, Imperial Fists from a rules standpoint feel at lot less restrictive in terms of unit selection over Death Guard but its a minor thing at most. Mostly due to how many units actually benefit from the +1BS for firing bolters. Oh, and a few pictures ;) http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y-s5qcu3Frc/VDlQg2ilrUI/AAAAAAAAjA0/JA85A10mvag/s1600/IMG_20141011_102038286_zpsfm8soy1t.jpg http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/uploads/gallery/album_116/med_gallery_69_116_112349.jpg VS http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/deathshr-1.jpg http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/gravewardens.jpg ....lets be honest, they all look great... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks for all the responses so far, definitely leaning more towards DG, but then I have always preferred their no nonsense aesthetic and penchant for attrition warfare. I also think DG would be much easier to paint. What are you opinions on destroyers, grave guard and deathshrouds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh well, I tried Destroyers are a Pricey but decent unit; works best with a Moritat for they shore up his short comings. Also, very fluffy with DG. Grave Wardens are essentially Terminator Destroyers. Essentially. Their Heavy Flamer (1in5 option iirc) already has Chem Munitions so kinda redundant with the RoW that gives it to all Flamers Free. Haven't really heard of anyone running them. Heres what 1d4chan has to say: Grave Warden Terminators - Chemical-attack terminators pioneered by Calas Typhon's company. They are Cataphractii Heavy support choice termies wielding assault 2 grenade launchers loaded with krak and toxin grenades, the latter which are small AP4 blasts that, in lieu of rolling to-wound normally, make the targeted unit take toughness tests (wounding on 5+ for MEQs and 4+ for GEQs, they behave almost exactly as Tempest rounds. Nice). 'Death Cloud' gives the Wardens a template using the toxin rule as before and any charging unit counts as going through dangerous terrain (which compensates the lack of overwatch) and is always disorganized (which negates most rules that apply on the charge, like Furious Charge. Suck on that, Raven Guard), making them one of the most difficult-to-charge units in the game. They come with Power Fists standard (no swapping to Manreapers, since you didn't buy them) which they can exchange for chainfists, 1 in each 5 can get a Chem Heavy flamer (though you already have Toxin templates) and the Chem master is the only one that can get a combi-weapon. They cost EXACTLY the same as similarly equipped Terminators, buy they get better weapons (2 shot krak/toxin at 18" vs 1 twin-linked bolter) AND the toxin template & rule. And since Cataphractii armour didn't allow them to run in the first place, The Reaping RoW doesn't actually affect them. And the Deathshroud: Deathshroud - Mortarion's bodyguard of Terminators, who were personally selected by the Primarch and later listed as killed in action. They carried Manreapers, the only others inside the Legion who could use them beside First Captain Calas Typhon and Mortarion himself. They were never further from Mortarion than 49 paces (the square root of which is 7, the sacred number of Nurgle). Rules wise they are two-wound Terminators with Manreapers and chem hand flamers, and can take Melta bombs. And they're only 10 points more than a normal Terminator in 30k. Because that's totally balanced right? That said, keep them the away from actual terminators, their weapons are only +1S AP2 with unwieldy (and Sweep Attack will not help you here), so they'll strike at the same time as regular terminators, and they're only T4, so Power fists/Thunder hammers will instant death them. Their shooting is also worse as they have S3 AP6 Get's Hot! flamers (albeit with shred) versus Twin-Linked bolters. At least they are Ld10. With their Sweep Attacks, 2 wounds and re-roll To Wound flamers, they are good at countering hordes, and because they wear Tartaros armor (regular terminator armour) they can fire Overwatch with shredding hand flamers. Instead of a Command squad, a Terminator Praetor can choose to have a Deathshroud bodyguard. Having them this way doesn't use any FOC slot, so you're free to have more Consuls or Elites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yep, you tried slip! The dg are a solid army. And they are so easy to paint. Those IFs sure look cool though.......if your into posturing.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 AND POSTURE WE SHALL! Primarch-Progenitor, to your glory and the glory of him on earth! I mean, our Fist Captain is a "pretty cool guy. Eh Kills Aliens and Traitors and doesn't afraid of anything." We also paint our armor Bright Yellow for the same Reasons. Also, Storm Shields; eat it non-salamanders!...and anyone who has a 4+ invuln and is capable of taking a cyber-familiar...We also get Solarite Power Gauntlets. Ie: Better Power Fists without Specialist Weapon. So, while we may not have Legion Specific Terminators (yet, maybe? we'll see at the Siege of Terra if not before), ours have the easiest time of getting 2+/3++ with TH/SS terminators without having to take Cataphractii like Firedrakes do and are thus more mobile. Though we don't have 2 wounds. Templar Brethren are probably one of THE best MEQ shredding units, coming standard all with Power Swords, 2 Attacks (not including the extra for BP), Furious Charge, etc. Phalanx Warders are what Breachers aspire to be (thats more or less the fluff ) though they still suffer from the Breacher Syndrome : too expensive Though they really shine with the Stone Gauntlet RoW. SIGISMUND and Alexis Polux both the papas of the Black Templars and Crimson Fists Respectively; some of the most badass 40k chapters out there! And Papa Dorn. While not the Best beatstick primarch, how many of them can say they can have a Thunderhawk with a Void Shield and Turbo Laser as a Dedicated Transport? NONE THATS HOW MANY! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Death Guard basic legionaries are more expensive in points and cash. They require the kukra to fit the fluff and it currently has no bitz to represent it on the model. While it isn't necessary to do that of course. Both legions are cool, but only one won't require you to buy all new models to represent their later years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I know you've picked yours already, but honestly I say if you like Grave Wardens... go with the DG. I mean, I picked World Eaters, and do you want to know my entire reason? Because I like the look of the Red Butcher Models over, say, the Gal Vorbak. And yes, Death Guard were tempting for me too, so I know exactly where you're coming from on this one. Either that or the Alpha Legion the legion that totally doesn't exist. If only because they can actually take anyone's special units. EDIT: Also Slipstreams, before you go on another Son of Dorn rant, if I had gone IF I would have used the Black Templars Sword Bretheren as a basis for mine. Remember, the traitor legions don't HAVE any special units that don't look chaotic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Why not Zoidberg Unification era Dusk Raiders? As Slipstreams pointed out, the DG Contemptor does have some mutability with a little work... http://i.imgur.com/Hmw5THI.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Why not Zoidberg Unification era Dusk Raiders? As Slipstreams pointed out, the DG Contemptor does have some mutability with a little work... http://i.imgur.com/Hmw5THI.png Again with the zoidberg! I have to agree here. Unification seems really ripe for picking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3893780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 After reading all the great responses, pouring over this http://rustymagos.wordpress.com/category/imperial-fists/ and then seeing the latest FW jigsaw update, my legion will be the VIIth! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3898967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeesssssssss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 AND POSTURE WE SHALL! Primarch-Progenitor, to your glory and the glory of him on earth! I mean, our Fist Captain is a "pretty cool guy. Eh Kills Aliens and Traitors and doesn't afraid of anything." We also paint our armor Bright Yellow for the same Reasons. Also, Storm Shields; eat it non-salamanders!...and anyone who has a 4+ invuln and is capable of taking a cyber-familiar...We also get Solarite Power Gauntlets. Ie: Better Power Fists without Specialist Weapon. So, while we may not have Legion Specific Terminators (yet, maybe? we'll see at the Siege of Terra if not before), ours have the easiest time of getting 2+/3++ with TH/SS terminators without having to take Cataphractii like Firedrakes do and are thus more mobile. Though we don't have 2 wounds. Templar Brethren are probably one of THE best MEQ shredding units, coming standard all with Power Swords, 2 Attacks (not including the extra for BP), Furious Charge, etc. Phalanx Warders are what Breachers aspire to be (thats more or less the fluff ) though they still suffer from the Breacher Syndrome : too expensive Though they really shine with the Stone Gauntlet RoW. SIGISMUND and Alexis Polux both the papas of the Black Templars and Crimson Fists Respectively; some of the most badass 40k chapters out there! And Papa Dorn. While not the Best beatstick primarch, how many of them can say they can have a Thunderhawk with a Void Shield and Turbo Laser as a Dedicated Transport? NONE THATS HOW MANY! This post helped too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Don't do it! RESIST! Are the Fists remorseless? NOPE, give them half a chance and they'll cower behind cover or run like the yellow-tailed cowards they are. Templar Brethren are second rate MEQ shredders compared to the mighty Deathshroud! Accept no substitutes! RAD GRENADES!!! Laugh mercilessly as your foe charges you only to lose all their Toughness. Purchase the Barbaran Thurible to make it even MORE EVIL. Or laugh even more mercilessly when your foes try to get near the Grave Wardens (NOPE. DEATH CLOUD). Our units are also well costed, in game and out. Want Phalanx Warders and Templar Brethren? HAH pay for TWO kits for the standard marines and the upgrade sets. NOPE. (Actually I still have hope that they'll just sell complete sets with legs and backpacks... plz FW) What about modeling? Did you accidentally just screw something up a bit while removing mould lines? GOOD, now it's battle damage, appropriate. In fact you meant to do it. Rugged. Weathering practice will benefit all of your future painting as well! And can Dorn SHADOW OF THE FREAKIN REAPER around the board like magic? Of course not, he's not a wizard. DONE. (PLUS stubborn, poison missiles, and being unkillable except don't look at that meager 4++ nooooo) .....but yeah when I finish my Death Guard I might have to buy some Fists. seriously that Polux tho Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Ran out of likes. Well player, sir, well played. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Don't do it! RESIST! Are the Fists remorseless? NOPE, give them half a chance and they'll cower behind cover or run like the yellow-tailed cowards they are. Templar Brethren are second rate MEQ shredders compared to the mighty Deathshroud! Accept no substitutes! RAD GRENADES!!! Laugh mercilessly as your foe charges you only to lose all their Toughness. Purchase the Barbaran Thurible to make it even MORE EVIL. Or laugh even more mercilessly when your foes try to get near the Grave Wardens (NOPE. DEATH CLOUD). Our units are also well costed, in game and out. Want Phalanx Warders and Templar Brethren? HAH pay for TWO kits for the standard marines and the upgrade sets. NOPE. (Actually I still have hope that they'll just sell complete sets with legs and backpacks... plz FW) What about modeling? Did you accidentally just screw something up a bit while removing mould lines? GOOD, now it's battle damage, appropriate. In fact you meant to do it. Rugged. Weathering practice will benefit all of your future painting as well! And can Dorn SHADOW OF THE FREAKIN REAPER around the board like magic? Of course not, he's not a wizard. DONE. (PLUS stubborn, poison missiles, and being unkillable except don't look at that meager 4++ nooooo) .....but yeah when I finish my Death Guard I might have to buy some Fists. seriously that Polux tho This would have been useful before I finally made up my mind. Good thing I probably would have done a loyalist DG force and most of your "pros" don't appeal to me. I already have about 6k of Templars as well, so I think doing the VIth is inevitable. Already have a copious amount of old metal fist shoulder pads I could use as well. Also have a few sets of rhino and LR doors and icons, picked up cheap on eBay a while ago. Just makes sense to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Ah well, I tried. Congrats on your decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3899300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus-Alaska Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Part of the.....wait.....wrong ship! Honestly man, the VIIth is awesome, there is no denying it. I have Dornish roots, what can I say. You will have bloody adventures to be sure. Not as bloody as mine, but they should be fun anyways. As I have finally decided on the World Eaters, the only thing I have left to say is..........I will see you at Terra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3900197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Part of the.....wait.....wrong ship! Honestly man, the VIIth is awesome, there is no denying it. I have Dornish roots, what can I say. You will have bloody adventures to be sure. Not as bloody as mine, but they should be fun anyways. As I have finally decided on the World Eaters, the only thing I have left to say is..........I will see you at Terra. The VIIth will be the last thing your WE see on Terra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300608-my-dilemma-itching-to-start-my-force/#findComment-3900204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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