Sniper Scouts?

[malorn24]

Does anyone still use these guys? and if so in what capacity do you use them?

[Armfelt]

My list is mainly mechanized and I have only painted 5 sniper scouts. I feel that that they need to be 10 to bring any contribution to the battlefield. On the last tournament I was on, there was a lot of monsters, so wounding on 4+ is handy.

I might also add that I use them to baby-sit a rear objective.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

10 men with cloaks is a nice firebase support. Good range and you can kill MC's pretty well.

[Kaedes Nex]

2x5 Scouts is one of the most common build types right now because everything scores, you still have two Objective Secured units, and they are extremely cheap so you can spend more points on things like Centurions or allies like Knights.

 

I personally don't like naked bolter Scouts. 5 Sniper rifles is cheap and useful, and 5 Cloaks makes them harder to kill once they arrive or if they camped from turn 1. And even with one or both options, they're still cheaper/better at their job than a mini tactical squad.

I've seen 40-60 bolter scouts in speeders and also BP+CCW scouts in speeders, but they don't do as well as tactical spam or non-troop spam armies.

[ElectricPaladin]

Blood Angels codex here. I like my sniper scouts because if I'm going to do scouts, I'm certainly not going to waste my time with commando scouts. When I want to get into assault, I've got units that are actually good at it, like death company and assault terminators. The contrast got even more marked now that things like assault marines and sanguinary guard are good again, too.

 

I find sniper scouts interesting. Given good placement, camo cloaks, and potentially a heavy bolter and hellfire shells (speaking of which, I should see how much scout-with-heavy-bolter is going for on eBay...), you've got a unit that can get work done. They'll underperform compared to the rest of your army, but that's all right. They're cheap, they'll kill some folks, and lots of opponents seem unreasonably afraid of them and will waste time killing them. They're great for messing with monstrous creatures (especially with those hellfire shells) and bikers and other high-T infantry. I don't know... they're a good way to pay the Troops Tax in any army that doesn't want to focus on Troops and needs fire support more than it needs something assaulty and killy. I expect you'll see a lot of them from Codex: Blood Angels in the Baal Strike Force Detachment.

[Journeyman]

I run one squad with (counts as) Telion, 6 snipers, 1 hvy bltr & 2 bolters.

Telion's special rules for ooomph! A few to soak up some hits.

Yes these guys have cloaks as they usually camp in as fire support.

[Lucien Eilam]

I think the thing to remember is that you get what you pay for.

 

I often see people complaining that they never achieve anything, but then they're only taking 5 guys with rifles and cloaks. That's the same price as 5 Tactical Marines with bolters, and nobody would expect a great deal from them.

 

If you just want to camp an objective cheaply, 5 is fine and will occasionally put a wound on something. If you want any more than that, you'll need more bodies and a heavy weapon.

[Deschenus Maximus]

I could maybe see a use for them in a Max OS-type list, but otherwise, I avoid them like the plague.

[tdemayo]

I like the sniper rifles mostly for their range. A sniper scout unit can sit in cover, away from the enemy, and still contribute to the fight. I usually take 10 when I take them.

[Leonaides]

Took 3 wounds off a wraithknight and a hull point off a serpent in close combat and sat on an objective all game for me this evening.

[templargdt]

For the last several years I have been using large numbers of scouts (30-40) including a unit of 10 snipers.  In a ruins, reinforced by a MOTF they do okay.  Mostly they end up shooting Wraithknights it seems, which is fine.

[Ishagu]

I used to field them along with Tellion...

 

Their damage output is minimal, now they can't even hurt vehicles.

They can be made resilient with camo cloaks, but so many things ignore cover. A wave serpent can hit you with 7 ignore cover, str7 shots which typically results in 3/4 dead scouts.

Tau can remove them with ease, and let's not mention flamers.

 

They had a place at the start of 6th as backfield holders... The meta has left them behind.

 

Spend your points on Tacs or CC Scouts in a LS Storm. As for hurting a Wraithknight? Spend the points on some grav bikers :-P

[shandwen]

Snipers got the short end this ed. It lost pinning, and is too expensive to give the rifles and camo cloaks to guys. I wanted them to work, but they are a point sink with too many good choices to take in troops.

[Jacques Corbin]

Sniper scouts are great. It's 70 points for 5 with cloaks and sniper rifles. Infiltrate is less awesome at higher point games, because there are fewer open spaces left on the table. It is nice to start on an objective though. Ten men with cloaks and snipers camped in ruins, or even sitting in your backfield can discourage most units.

Monday, I had them pop a cadre fireblade, and then they took wounds off crisis suits.

[Ishagu]

But you're looking at tops two wounds caused a turn...

65 points could get you a Whirlwind that can cause a lot more damage with it's str5 large blast...

[GreyCrow]

Wow, thanks for pointing out that Sniper lost Pinning, I absolutely missed that ! That's quite a shame to be fair, so I guess that leaves Sniper Scouts with a Sniper/Hellfire shells unit to target anything with a toughness value, but trying to avoid Toughness 3 and below, while CC scouts deal with T3 and below.

[Vel'Cona]

Ishagu pretty much nailed it on the head. Sniper Scouts aren't really optimal in the current edition simply because they're banking on high dice rolls to do anything useful and the points you save compared to full on Tactical Marines aren't worth the loss in potential damage. Camo Cloaks are helpful, but once again the shift toward Ignores Cover firepower is a kick in the pants and often those points will go to waste.

If you're just trying to camp an objective, 5 Tac Marines in a stock RB are cheap as chips, and give you two Obj Sec units for CAD. Also, they can take actual heavy weapons!

[GreyCrow]

Ishagu pretty much nailed it on the head. Sniper Scouts aren't really optimal in the current edition simply because they're banking on high dice rolls to do anything useful and the points you save compared to full on Tactical Marines aren't worth the loss in potential damage. Camo Cloaks are helpful, but once again the shift toward Ignores Cover firepower is a kick in the pants and often those points will go to waste.

If you're just trying to camp an objective, 5 Tac Marines in a stock RB are cheap as chips, and give you two Obj Sec units for CAD. Also, they can take actual heavy weapons!

This is true with the Camo Cloaks. But a 5 men sniper squad without cloaks costs 65 points. A 5 men Tacticals with a stock Razorback and a heavy bolter costs 135 points which is more than twice as much.

Besides, if the opponent shoots at the Scouts, he/she won't shoot at the rest of your army

Like you said though, they don't have enough firepower to be the centerpiece of Troops choices in a list, they're more of a "what if I have a few points to spare" unit. The fact that Snipers lost pinning is a big blow to the attractiveness of that unit...

[Fibonacci]

5 man tac with lascannon in a Rhino  -- 125 pts

5 man scout with 5 sniper rifles in a land speeder storm with assault cannon -- 125 points

 

FWIW, the assault cannon (which rends, don't forget) at BS3 has an equal or better chance of removing a HP against anything except AV 12 than a lascannon at BS4 does.  It also kills an equal number of MEQ. Against necrons where the lascannon will force -1 to RP the assault cannon is over twice as effective.

 

Something to think about at least.

[GreyCrow]

So I just ran the Sniper Scouts with a Heavy Bolter with Helfire Shells in a game. "All" they did was to take a wound off a Wraithknight, which is a pretty big deal in my opinion :p

 

I was wondering though, what do you guys think of the Missile Launcher instead of the Hellfire Heavy Bolter ? Right now obviously the Scouts can't hurt vehicles but I was thinking that perhaps the Missile Launcher would be more interesting against infantry. Or I'm totally wrong and let's keep the Hellfire :p

[ShinyRhino]

So I just ran the Sniper Scouts with a Heavy Bolter with Helfire Shells in a game. "All" they did was to take a wound off a Wraithknight, which is a pretty big deal in my opinion

I was wondering though, what do you guys think of the Missile Launcher instead of the Hellfire Heavy Bolter ? Right now obviously the Scouts can't hurt vehicles but I was thinking that perhaps the Missile Launcher would be more interesting against infantry. Or I'm totally wrong and let's keep the Hellfire

I find myself pining for a Heavy Bolter with Hellfire every time I take the missile launcher. Why? Because of BS3. That one ML in the squad can't hit the broad side of a barn. On the rare occasion I do hit something with it, it typically fails to penetrate or a cover save is made.

[shandwen]

I personally find that a min tac squad with a heavy weapon does more than a scout squad, all while using armor saves rather than being stuck to cover.

[Vel'Cona]

My feels exactly, shandwen.  I know a lot of players like to use Scouts to fill compulsory and camp objectives, but you can get a similar role from Tacticals with only a minor increase in cost investment.  Just the access to a BS4 Lascannon or Plasma Cannon is worth the tax, IMO.

[ShinyRhino]

My feels exactly, shandwen.  I know a lot of players like to use Scouts to fill compulsory and camp objectives, but you can get a similar role from Tacticals with only a minor increase in cost investment.  Just the access to a BS4 Lascannon or Plasma Cannon is worth the tax, IMO.

 

I take Scouts largely for access to Infiltrate. The ability to deploy outside my own deployment zone is huge for me. Scouts don't have access to any weapon that can really turn a game, but their deployment and movement options are significant.