Painting ASM with citadel paint system

[LegioX]

Greetings. I've encountered a wall with painting ASM. I have them primed grey and then spray painted Mephiston red and washed with the corresponding wash, but I have two problems as a somewhat novice painter in terms of space marines and flat surface areas.

 

1. The wash has made the model somewhat slick and shiny, and when I try using the next later of red thinned paint it barely sticks to the surface and realistically it looks like it needs at least three coats of that one layer

 

Which brings me to my next question

 

2. Using the citadel layer system, I have been using it as such. Cover the whole red area with the Basecoat, wash it all, then the first layer covers about 90% of the red areas leaving just the recesses and obvious depressions, and then essentially edge highlighting with the 2nd layer. Is this wrong ?

 

I saw no use for the dry brush paint in the system of red lineup from Citadel. I then red glaze the whole red area.

 

I realize I'm basically asking for the answers to the test but don't think I haven't put in some attempts and research beforehand :D

 

Anyway, some insight would be extremely appreciated as I want to get into a routine system I can use to methodically paint up my marines as thats what I enjoy. Thanks all.

[Teetengee]

I have almost always used the washes last, but I also treat them very much as inks of old, so I may not be the best person to talk to here.

[Lucien Eilam]

1. The wash has made the model somewhat slick and shiny, and when I try using the next later of red thinned paint it barely sticks to the surface and realistically it looks like it needs at least three coats of that one layer

 

It shouldn't be shiny, Citadel Shades dry with a fairly matt finish.

 

It sounds like you either didn't shake it up properly, put it on too thick, or possibly you have a bad batch.

[LegioX]

 

1. The wash has made the model somewhat slick and shiny, and when I try using the next later of red thinned paint it barely sticks to the surface and realistically it looks like it needs at least three coats of that one layer

It shouldn't be shiny, Citadel Shades dry with a fairly matt finish.

 

It sounds like you either didn't shake it up properly, put it on too thick, or possibly you have a bad batch.

Thanks for the response. I really hope I didn't screw up too badly with one of those possibilities...I wonder if some clear coat would be more prone to holding the paint ... *shrugs*

[Teetengee]

Do you have pictures?

[LegioX]

Do you have pictures?

I'm away at AIT right now but coming home for holiday block leave and am excited to dive back into my fresh dex'ed BA. I missed so much at basic I'm super glad about the new stuff. I will take pictures when I get home in a few days ! Thanks for your willingness to figure this out :) much obliged. Little excuses like these always cause me to abandon/lose interest/heart in my projects. I need to start doing things right the first time >.<

[Kaedes Nex]

1. The wash has made the model somewhat slick and shiny, and when I try using the next later of red thinned paint it barely sticks to the surface and realistically it looks like it needs at least three coats of that one layer

 

This shouldn't be happening. The wash should be matte and be easily painted over. It might dry white if you put on too much. I don't really have any tips for fixing this that others haven't mentioned. Just try shaking it more next time, don't use as much, maybe thinning it too instead of using it straight from the pot. If paint is not sticking to your model, it may be too late to save it. You will have to strip the paint and start all over. Try brushing on some rubbing alcohol with a disposable brush to try to strip some of the wash.

 

 

2. Using the citadel layer system, I have been using it as such. Cover the whole red area with the Basecoat, wash it all, then the first layer covers about 90% of the red areas leaving just the recesses and obvious depressions, and then essentially edge highlighting with the 2nd layer. Is this wrong ?

 

Yeah, that's how to do it. The final red glaze will really help blend everything together, so don't worry if your layer red doesn't look red enough, or if you're worried your highlights stick out too much. The final red glaze will fix it.

[Bryan Blaire]

Which "wash" color are you using? Is it Baal Red, Carroburg Crimson, or Agrax Earthshade? If it is the former, then it will dry glossy (that is an older wash and just what they seemed to do most of the time to me, regardless of how hard I shook the canister). If it is either of the latter two, it should be matte, as Ultramarini said.

 

You may be able to fix the glossy finish by brushing some matte varnish over it.

 

As far as the paint system, it really is up to you what effect you want to get out of it that determines the method you use when painting. Just for reds, you could use multiple methods with the painting system to get different color effects.

 

If all you are wanting is the darkened recesses, only paint those with the Shade color. It sounds like this is all you are getting anyway, so don't waste the Shade by painting the entire model with it just to then cover it back over.

 

If you want a darker color over all as the base coat, I would still say "don't paint everything with the Shade", simply start with a darker color. Make an easy darker paint mix if you need to. It is too hard to go back and fix mistakes if you have to brush the base coat back on and then try to blend a Shade back in, you inevitably end up with funky edge lines and are better off just covering over things like that with battle damage.

 

As far as how to paint BA red marines, starting from Mephiston Red, there are several methods you could do that should all look good, but will all look different:

 

1) Mephiston Red -> shade recesses with Carroburg Crimson -> clean up with Mephiston Red -> cover most of the Mephiston Red remaining with Evil Sunz Scarlet -> edge highlight with Wild Rider Red

 

2) Mephiston Red -> shade recesses with Carroburg Crimson -> clean up with Mephiston Red -> fairly liberal edge highlight with Evil Sunz Scarlet -> smaller edge highlight with Wild Rider Red - this will leave a darker red tone overall that you would get from Method 1

 

3) Trade out Wild Rider Red for Fire Dragon Bright to do the last edge highlight

 

4) any of the above methods with an added final step: make a 1:1 mix of your final edge highlight color:White Scar, use this to make just tip, corner, and spot highlights at the brightest reflecting surfaces

 

5) Mephiston Red -> Carroburg Crimson over the whole model -> edge highlight with Mephiston Red -> smaller edge highlight with Evil Sunz Scarlet -> spot highlight with Wild Rider Red or Fire Dragon Bright

 

6) Trade out Carroburg Crimson with Agrax Earthshade to get a darker recess tone in any of the above methods

 

7) Apply a final overall glaze to any of the above with Bloodletter

 

(BTW, the BA depicted in the Paint Splatter in the last WD showing BA was painted Mephiston -> recesses with Agrax -> clean up Mephiston -> edge highlight Evil Sunz Scarlet -> spot highlight/light edge highlight Fire Dragon Bright)

 

Also, to thin your paints, do yourself a favor and get a flow improver, don't thin with water. It will get your paints thinner without diluting the color tone or giving it funny properties like water can sometimes (seems to change the surface tension, etc, for me).

[LegioX]

I am using carrouburg Crimson wash. I should have just hit the recesses or taken more care while putting it on.

 

Thanks for clearing up the painting methods too. All those examples are interesting and I've attempting number 5. I'm going to give it another shot, that evil sunz scarlet, at layering. I suppose if it takes a couple coats then it's what I have to do at this point...though it will take foreverrrr lol. And big flat parts of the jump packs always throw me off when layering.

 

Will try and get pics in a couple days. Thanks for the immense amount of help you've all been. I've a duty now to get some models painted :D

[Bryan Blaire]

If your Carroburg is making things shine, definitely shake it more, as has been suggested.

 

It actually sounds like you are using method 1, if you are layering Evil Sunz Scarlet over Mephiston, instead of just edge highlighting.

 

Good explanation of Edge Highlighting: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2011/08/basics-line-highlighting-made-simple.html?m=1

 

Good explanation of Layering: http://www.how-to-paint-miniatures.com/miniature_advanced_painting_blending.html

 

Either method will produce nice looking results on the table top, but the edge highlighted model will be a darker tone over all, because you aren't building up a lot of lighter tone anywhere.

[LegioX]

If your Carroburg is making things shine, definitely shake it more, as has been suggested.

 

It actually sounds like you are using method 1, if you are layering Evil Sunz Scarlet over Mephiston, instead of just edge highlighting.

 

Good explanation of Edge Highlighting: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2011/08/basics-line-highlighting-made-simple.html?m=1

 

Good explanation of Layering: http://www.how-to-paint-miniatures.com/miniature_advanced_painting_blending.html

Yes #1 I meant, my mistake. I meant #5 seems like a good solution to my problem. I avoid painting over a lot of the shaded area!

I will check out the links and shake my shade more next time hehe. I figured it didn't have to be shook.

[Bryan Blaire]

Shake everything you paint with like crazy (well, okay, maybe not that extreme) before you use it to ensure that your medium and pigment are adequately mixed. Depending on how long paints sit, they will settle out.

[appiah4]

Sounds like your wash may have dried up a bit..  The thicker washes get, the lower their surface tension, the faster they dry, stay on higher places and give you a less matte finish.  you may consider thinning it down with water, dishwasher soap, lahmian's medium, etc.